If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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lalalandstudios
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If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Post by lalalandstudios » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:09 am

As frustrating as it is to talk to dealers with their misinformation about JM and Jags, it just is exponentially insane when it comes to VI's. Here's a perfectly nice 66+ VI with a 63 neck (surplus and used well into 66) being passed off and priced as a '63 b/c of the neck date and a brown case.

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... em=1554090

Here's another case of date/feature misinformation/disconnect  http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... tem=858952 which could actually go the buyers way except that I am sure the pricing is limiting buyers to relatives of Bill Gates, "Call for price" really means if you have to ask you can't afford it...

This one just plain annoyed me too "actually plays and sounds great" Are you surprised ? http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... em=1534125
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about V

Post by zhivago » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:27 am

it really is amazing how they get away with it...

there's a sunburst VI on Denmark Street here in London...it's been going from shop window to shop window on the same road...the reason?

£5k is the price....that's $9.3k!....because it's a VI, it has it's original finish (in not the best of conditions) and John Lennon played one a couple of times...I wonder what the full story on it is, as I don't trust any of the shops on Denmarks street....we got the kind of guys who blur the waters a lot.

another example....the Fiesta Red '59 JM refin that was in Vintage & Rare...I asked them about what's going on under the hood....the actual dealer answer was "everything checks out ok"

now, before I drop £2.7k on a refin, I'd like to know a bit more detail.....  >:(


I know people claim that dealers are a safer bet, and I guess the good ones are, but I still think they're sharks...just like the people on ebay.
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Post by fullerplast » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:35 am

I know people claim that dealers are a safer bet, and I guess the good ones are, but I still think they're sharks...just like the people on ebay
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I say that as a joke, but one of (that nut) Ed Roman's rants on his website explain the premise that the one is who is most honest about the originality of a guitar is one who has no idea what the true value is.
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about V

Post by zhivago » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:32 am

I agree, only an unsuspecting person will not try to screw a buyer.  :(
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Post by Marc » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:53 am

All dealers know about VI's are that they are R@RE ::)

I saw that red '59 in Denmark St last year.... oversanded body which had ruined the edge contours and a gun-oiled neck. It was very overpriced.

Yeah Gun Oil - that must be the tenuous link between guns and guitars that I never quite get.
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Post by lalalandstudios » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:12 am

The most interesting mistake I'd ever seen a dealer make is a dakota red VI that initially the dealer was saying was a factory refin. It was a 63 clay dot neck with a matching headstock, white gaurd (not mint) and had 66 pickups/pots, in a black OHSC. There were no factory refin numbers stamped or etched anywhere under the gaurd or neck. He was surprised when I mentioned that it was probably a legit 66ish VI with a surplus 63 neck. He was asking 12.5K so it didn't really matter but another example nonetheless...
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Post by sookwinder » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:46 am

yeah.. that sunburst being passed off as a 63, with the 66 pots, does have some issues. 

The white guard rings bells for me.  I know ANYTHING could and probably did happen in the Fender production plant in the 60s , but... every sunburst I have seen has had a tort guard. Only ever seen white guards with custom colours (and very few of them, when it comes down to it).  If we assume it is all genuine, surely the colour of the guard would have at least yellowed a little, given that the Pup covers have.

It also has JM/Jag threaded saddles, rather than the Mustang saddles.  Certainly possible given their interchangeability.. but ???

It is also fitted with strap locks....  so some work has occured to the guitar/bass

Is that a PAT PENDING trem unit ?
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about V

Post by lalalandstudios » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:11 am

I think the trem plate is OK, hard to tell from the pix on the saddles, the white guard is possible, but it would also put it well beyond late 65, even if it was factory

BTW, I've always liked the mint/white and sunburst look - but have seen only a handful of factory JM's like that...
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Post by sookwinder » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:23 am

the saddles are deinately JM/JAG saddles... besides the threads you can see the height adjustment screws  (mustang saddles don't have these)
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Post by bassVIst » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:06 am

a '63 neck on a '66 VI doesn't suprise me in the slightest

show me a '66 VI stamp
i don't believe they exist

but that looks like a refin to me
i've never seen a burst from '66 that looks like that...
who knows if the guard is original

um
that blonde "64" is a '62 first generation VI...
it's supposed to have Jaguar/Jazzmaster saddles on it

seeing Jaguar/Jazzmaster saddles on a 2nd generation VI isn't all that alarming

but i wouldn't touch that white guard VI for half that money without having it apart in my own hands first


i'd love to have that '74...

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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about V

Post by lalalandstudios » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:25 am

And while we're on the subject, this one's probably a 65, but I really like everything about it 'cept the price  ???

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... em=1556521
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about VI's

Post by bassVIst » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:10 am

damn that's hot.
i GOTTA do my first USA CG 4switch VI in CAR
:D

what makes you think it's a '65?
the dots?
some pickguards stay pretty white...

could be the photo...
or might have been refretted
which i doubt... not much wear anywhere else
plus, i don't think there are any other VI necks than clay dot ones up until '67

are you thinking that it could very well be the '65 we've already seen?

how many of these things could there possibly be?
sure does seem like i've seen a fair share of CAR VI's

and what's with the 300-400 "estimate" in the other ad?
is that number shrinking again?
went from under 1,000 to 600 and now 300???
most of them must have been up for sale at some point over the past six years...

i think i'll come up with my own estimate if i ever auction one off...
192
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about V

Post by Orang Goreng » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:27 am

And to think these used to be cheaper than JMs and Jags (per a post on the NRA), see: http://www.fenderforum.com/userphotos/i ... ecid=36323
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about V

Post by fullerplast » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:13 am

Orang Goreng wrote: And to think these used to be cheaper than JMs and Jags (per a post on the NRA), see: http://www.fenderforum.com/userphotos/i ... ecid=36323
Dang! Check out the price spread between "Custom Colors" and Sunburst! It's hardly anything (even in 1965 dollars)!
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Re: If dealers know little about Jazzmasters, then how much do they know about V

Post by lalalandstudios » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:25 am

bassVIst wrote:
what makes you think it's a '65?
the dots?
some pickguards stay pretty white...

and what's with the 300-400 "estimate" in the other ad?
is that number shrinking again?
went from under 1,000 to 600 and now 300???
most of them must have been up for sale at some point over the past six years...

i think i'll come up with my own estimate if i ever auction one off...
192
i like the sound of that number
Just the whiteness of the guard, sure it could be the picture, but it doesn't look even a trace mint to me. Gotta see it up close....


It would be nice to get a better estimate. Start a registry? Extrapolate from Werners list? They certainly do seem to circulate though.....
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