Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

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Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Gavanti » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:13 am

Looking for some advice on wiring a Mustang. I've read a bunch of threads and looking at diagrams but haven't been able to find an answer as to whether what I want is possible (which probably means it isn't). Ideally, I would like the ability to use Mustang switches to do the following:
Switch 1: neck/both/bridge
Switch 2: series override/phase (in or out)/phase (in or out)
The pickup selector wiring seems clear enough, and there are diagrams for both phase switching and series wiring on switch 2. In the series diagram there is only one switch position that does anything and the phase wiring seems to have an extra position at the dark setting. I was hoping that there would be a way to combine but haven't been able to make it work on paper, so I'm looking for someone to set me straight on whether this is possible. Alternately, if I could use one switch as on/off/phase and the other as on/off/series, or if there's a way to add something interesting like the dark filter to the series parallel mod, that would be fun.

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Gavanti » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:13 am

So if I wired the top 3/4 of one 3 way switch like the diagram Shadoweclipse13 offered in another thread, would the two remaining lugs be useable for adding some sort of tonal option-bass cut/dark mode?
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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:29 pm

I'll see what I can come up with, but I'd imagine that you haven't seen many options because the 8 lug, 3-position sliders are tricky to mess with. I always struggle finding a way around what I want to do with them. I have something I came up with a few months ago for a phase switch that might work here...
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http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Gavanti » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:30 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:I'll see what I can come up with, but I'd imagine that you haven't seen many options because the 8 lug, 3-position sliders are tricky to mess with. I always struggle finding a way around what I want to do with them. I have something I came up with a few months ago for a phase switch that might work here...
Thanks. Yeah, the Mustang 5.0 looks like a good phase option. Unfortunately, for what I play that would be less useful than a series option, but having two switch positions that do nothing seems wasteful.

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:00 am

Looking at what you're wanting, I've got nothing up my sleeves that's any better (or that isn't more complicated, and needing more switches) than the Mustang 5.0. I WILL however say that, if you changed one of your pots to a push-pull, you could get a series option without any drilling or new pickguard. There wouldn't be ANY sound you couldn't get with that thing :whistle:
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http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Gavanti » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:16 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:Looking at what you're wanting, I've got nothing up my sleeves that's any better (or that isn't more complicated, and needing more switches) than the Mustang 5.0. I WILL however say that, if you changed one of your pots to a push-pull, you could get a series option without any drilling or new pickguard. There wouldn't be ANY sound you couldn't get with that thing
Thanks! That's a workable idea for sure. If you have time, would you mind modifying the Mustang 5.0 diagram to show me how to wire in the push/pull for series (or just point me in the right direction on the web), please?

Edit: I think I've figured that out:

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:00 am

Damn, beat me to it ;) That's exactly it.
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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Gavanti » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:51 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:Damn, beat me to it That's exactly it.
OK, I wired up the Mustang 5.0 diagram and tried to wire in the push/pull series/parallel pot but screwed up somewhere. Volume and tone work well, and I'm getting my bridge pickup in the down position on the pickup selector switch but my neck pickup only in the middle position and nothing in the upper position. I'm fairly certain the the trouble comes somewhere between the phase switch and the series/parallel switch or between the latter and the pickup selector switch. I had some guesswork there on where to route wires. Diagram help would be most welcome, and I'll take a look with fresh eyes tomorrow to see if I can locate the fault.

Edit. Just found these from you in another thread here
Image
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I currently have the leads from the pickups going first to the phase switch in the Mustang 5.0 diagram. It looks like here, you'd suggest going to the series/parallel switch first. I'll give this a try. Thanks!

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:02 pm

I'll try to draw something up if I have a few minutes at work tonight, if not I'll try to get to it tomorrow. The only thing I've never liked about the Mustang 5.0 diagram is the top switch (dark, in phase, out-of-phase) because it puts both pickups wires on there, which honestly confuses me a little bit for a phase switch. One pickup is out of phase with the other, and as such will only affect the sound in the middle position of the pickup selector, so it's almost not necessary to put both pickup's wires on that switch.

Before I settled on a different (simpler) schematic for my Strazz project, I was messing around with Mustang switches, and I came up with this:
Image
I never got around to breadboarding it, but if you ignore the rest of that crazy malarkey and just look at the far right switch on the bottom (under the neck pickup), you'll see that I basically did the exact same switch, but without the bridge pickup wires connected to it. Essentially, IF it works correctly, it would be dark, in phase, and out-of-phase (though the order of the phasing options could be backwards here). The only issue I see is that the lug where the leads connect might have to move the next set of lugs to the right from where they're at now, but maybe not.
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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Gavanti » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:30 pm

Cool. I think I see where you're going with this. I'll look forward to the diagram, and thanks for all your help! This is a gorgeously abused '70 Compstang. It's been super fun to play, and the original wiring had been pulled from it years ago, which works for me insofar as I can get it switching more flexibly and efficiently than the original configuration.

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:58 pm

Gavanti wrote:Cool. I think I see where you're going with this. I'll look forward to the diagram, and thanks for all your help! This is a gorgeously abused '70 Compstang. It's been super fun to play, and the original wiring had been pulled from it years ago, which works for me insofar as I can get it switching more flexibly and efficiently than the original configuration.
That sounds amazing :) You'll have to post some pictures of the Mustang.

I've honestly always thought that the traditional Mustang wiring schematic had potential, but like you, very ineffecient. I always have these grandiose plans for switching schematics, but some things that I've done just don't sound all that different (series humbuckers vs parallel humbuckers) or just don't sound that great in a normal musical context to me personally.

I love versatility in a guitar, but there are only a few things that I've always felt I have to have. As of late, I've been thinking that the Johnny Marr type circuit is damn close to perfect, though for that not having a rhythm circuit, I like the idea of adding a Reverend type bass contour pot too :)
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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Gavanti » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:19 pm

So this is what I've got so far. I have two big question marks coming off the bottom lugs of the series/parallel switch, but it's possible there are other errors. Apologies for the janky drawing.

Edit: OK-Looking at it again, I think the lower left lug on the s/p switch runs to the lug on the phase switch 3rd down from the top on the right, and the neck ground lead goes to the opposite lug to keep the dark switch in phase. Also, I'd need a connector from the top right lug on the phase switch to the third down on the right where the lead came in from the s/p switch. The wire from the lower right lug on the s/p switch runs to ground. And the down position on the pickup selector becomes a kill switch if the push/pull is set to series. Yes?

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:53 pm

The last two days at work have been insane, but I'm working on it as we speak! Haven't forgotten!!
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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Gavanti » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:09 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:The last two days at work have been insane, but I'm working on it as we speak! Haven't forgotten!!
Thanks! I just figured I'd give it a go myself to see if I could sort it out, but I'm betting you'll have a cleaner circuit. I hear you on the work rush. It's been that way for me too, all the more so since I'd rather be soldering than going to meetings. :D

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Re: Mustang series/parallel/phase switching?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:41 pm

Gavanti wrote:
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:The last two days at work have been insane, but I'm working on it as we speak! Haven't forgotten!!
Thanks! I just figured I'd give it a go myself to see if I could sort it out, but I'm betting you'll have a cleaner circuit. I hear you on the work rush. It's been that way for me too, all the more so since I'd rather be soldering than going to meetings.
Me too dude. The last couple days at wok have been hell, but whatever. I think I finished the schematic but my hand drawing isn't up to my usual quality. I'll lay it out in Illustrator when I get home, first thing in about 4 hours :)

Also, as another of my mad scientist ideas, what about getting TWO push-pull pots? One for the series-parallel switch, one for a solo switch (volume and tone pot bypass for a little boost)? :?
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