I am, I am Super, Man...

Make it loud here.
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Surfysonic
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Re: I am, I am Super, Man...

Post by Surfysonic » Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:06 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:02 pm
If the amp is truly 1960 it would’ve had yellow astron paper-dielectric caps, not blue Mallory polyester dielectric (most likely)

Those paper astrons are notorious for failure

So at some point prior, replacing all with orange drops would’ve been not only defensible, but positively sensible if the amp was to to be relied-on as a working tool (not as a collectible)

My ‘60 Super still has quite a few of its original Astrons, but gradually they keep dying and getting replaced

To be honest, after a few blind tests I’ve lost all religion about caps and believe most of it to be romance and confirmation bias

I couldn’t reliably tell the difference between a 5E3 with all Astrons and one with 716P orange drops on a blind test w/ all values measured and matched

After that I stopped being quite so picky (but I still preserve originality in my own amps whenever I can just for the sake of it, and for resale should that ever be needed)
Good to know, thanks! Yeah, I feel the same re: preserving originality when/where I'm able for historical and re-sale purposes but absolutely appreciate an amp's life journey and that includes component replacements. I have no qualms about replacing failing/failed components (by a trusted and experienced amp tech) because I try to remember that in the here and now, this is also a part of the amp's life journey. 8)
The doofus formerly known as Snorre...

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øøøøøøø
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Re: I am, I am Super, Man...

Post by øøøøøøø » Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:48 pm

Another thing is that we’re on an ever-moving timeline

In the 1990s, a recent refret on a vintage guitar was a big downer and harmed resale value

Now, if done well, it’s a selling point—those guitars are now twice as old and original frets will rarely be playable (unless the guitar has been kept in a vault)

Similar with amps—a few changed parts isn’t the end of the world to me in 2024-2025.

I wouldn’t drive around a ‘61 Jaguar E-Type on its original tires, brake pads, spark plugs, belts and fluids

Speakers are made of paper. Capacitors are (sometimes) made of paper. Eyelet boards and carbon resistors absorb moisture. Pots wear out, etc etc

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MrSparkle
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Re: I am, I am Super, Man...

Post by MrSparkle » Wed Dec 25, 2024 1:56 pm

When I was building my vintage-reproduction Showman head I used some really really great resistors of type:

Whatever was cheap on Mouser.

Caps only matter in that it's hard to make a nice eyelet board with radials. (Output)Transformers matter, tubes matter, speakers matter. Outside of that - as long as the specs match up, one passive is as good as another from a sound perspective.

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N0_Camping4U
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Re: I am, I am Super, Man...

Post by N0_Camping4U » Wed Dec 25, 2024 5:31 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2024 1:56 pm
When I was building my vintage-reproduction Showman head I used some really really great resistors of type:

Whatever was cheap on Mouser.

Caps only matter in that it's hard to make a nice eyelet board with radials. (Output)Transformers matter, tubes matter, speakers matter. Outside of that - as long as the specs match up, one passive is as good as another from a sound perspective.
I must have missed this. Is there a topic on this? 1614-A showman? The greatest amp they ever made! I sometimes just stare at mine and can't believe I own one. They're rare as hell. That with the 15 JBL tone ring and a reverb tank is all ya need!!
"I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master."

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øøøøøøø
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Re: I am, I am Super, Man...

Post by øøøøøøø » Thu Dec 26, 2024 6:05 am

I’d gently suggest that subtle variations in passives can matter—it just depends on the application

For instance: in the feedback loop of an op-amp, a super-low-esr modern electrolytic can cause instability in some cases

Tantalum and class 2 ceramic caps can produce measurable and audible harmonic distortion in certain audio applications

Class 2 ceramics can also be piezoelectric and therefore microphonic

Etc etc etc a million other scenarios.

These are not imaginary, or snake oil. They’re not always even subtle… there are circuits where the difference between one model of Mouser-stocked electrolytic cap and another can be the difference between “working” and “not working.”

Even carbon resistors can cause measurable (debatably audible) harmonic distortion under specific conditions.

All of these behaviors (sans the op amp instability!) may either be sought out or avoided.

The problem is that these and other behaviors manifest under very specific conditions, and most people understandably don’t know how to reliably project or empirically measure what’s going to occur as a result of non-theoretical behavior from passives.

so they go by what they read on the internet… where the loudest and most-confident voices (as opposed to the most knowledgeable) are often the ones that are trusted

Then this sometimes-incomplete (or downright incorrect) information snowballs and mutates after getting repeated a million times, becoming even more dubious. That’s how we get legions of guitarists chasing subtle differences in components that, according to the most basic physics, could only possibly matter at MHz frequencies.

Then people have “historically accurate” components for sale, further incentivizing exaggerations

A lot of things I used to believe I no longer believe… and a lot of things I used to discount I no longer discount

I think the key is to stay humble about your own level of knowledge and always be willing to be proven wrong or educated

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Re: I am, I am Super, Man...

Post by MrSparkle » Thu Dec 26, 2024 7:25 am

N0_Camping4U wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2024 5:31 pm
I must have missed this. Is there a topic on this? 1614-A showman? The greatest amp they ever made! I sometimes just stare at mine and can't believe I own one. They're rare as hell. That with the 15 JBL tone ring and a reverb tank is all ya need!!
Haha, no - sorry - was a project on a different forum and long deleted. Also, never finished. I got to the structural level (chassis drilling, cab making) and kept running into roadblocks - most recently that my car has been too broken to make it to the local hackerspace. We'll see what the new year brings!

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MrSparkle
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Re: I am, I am Super, Man...

Post by MrSparkle » Thu Dec 26, 2024 7:31 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2024 6:05 am
I’d gently suggest that subtle variations in passives can matter—it just depends on the application

...

A lot of things I used to believe I no longer believe… and a lot of things I used to discount I no longer discount

I think the key is to stay humble about your own level of knowledge and always be willing to be proven wrong or educated
A wise man once said "I think you'll find it's more complicated than that." Words to live by. My version is the short summary to give people imagining that replacing all the Carbon film resistors in their 6G15 Reissue with Carbon Comp will make them sound more like Dick Dale. Yours is the detailed and measured version for people actually thinking about this. Thanks for sharing it. :)

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Surfysonic
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Re: I am, I am Super, Man...

Post by Surfysonic » Mon Jan 06, 2025 10:05 am

I had some oxblood grill cloth on hand, so I decided to put it on my custom combo cab for the more authentic look. Not perfect by any means even after watching some "How To" YT vids... :whistle: :fp:

Before...

Image

After....

Image

...I'm happy with it. ;D
The doofus formerly known as Snorre...

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