OffsetGuitars.com

bish wrote: I know it wasn't the main focus of the thread but I just have to add since I do color correction for my job, that while your probably right the colors are most likely off, it also really depends on who took the pictures and with what type of camera and what kind of lighting they were using. And whether it was color corrected or not. There is just no way to be able to tell from photos from the internet if the colors are correct because there are just so many variables involved behind the scenes.

Having had my '65 Vibro Champ right next to a PRRI, I can say that the color on the photos is a fairly accurate rendition of amps of the two eras.  Tolex may not fade, but it does get dirty and it does break down and off-gas over time, and that might account for the color differences.

Reproducing the original hand-wired circuit board would cost about eight times more than the printed circuit board that is used. A few other necessary changes were made to keep the price reasonable. Instead of finger-joined pine, birch ply is used—really not much of a trade-off.

that is ridiculous...who would they hire to wire these up?

the best open heart surgeons on the face of the earth??

assclowns   >:( 

zhivago wrote:

Reproducing the original hand-wired circuit board would cost about eight times more than the printed circuit board that is used. A few other necessary changes were made to keep the price reasonable. Instead of finger-joined pine, birch ply is used—really not much of a trade-off.

that is ridiculous...who would they hire to wire these up?

the best open heart surgeons on the face of the earth??

assclowns   >:( 

I think that PCBs can be soldered by robots, actually.

Maggieo wrote:

zhivago wrote:

Reproducing the original hand-wired circuit board would cost about eight times more than the printed circuit board that is used. A few other necessary changes were made to keep the price reasonable. Instead of finger-joined pine, birch ply is used—really not much of a trade-off.

that is ridiculous...who would they hire to wire these up?

the best open heart surgeons on the face of the earth??

assclowns   >:( 

I think that PCBs can be soldered by robots, actually.

that's the thing...if robots are doing all this work so cheaply, then why are these blackface RI amps so expensive?

This is interesting topic of discussion..
I sometimes feel like some of these companies
(Such as..  MXR for example), are starting to respond
to these deficiencies in their production and designs.

Look at MXR Carbon Copy Cloner -->  I feel like this was
MXR's response to them losing their sales to clones made
by boutique pedal dealers out there.. I think their new line
in general is very impressive; which is a good sign for their
companies future success in this vastly exploding indie market.

Perhaps, some of these companies like fender amps, might be
influenced by the clones of their line built to BF specs by boutique
amp manufacturers.  The only thing is, that prices for boutique amps
are too expensive and time-consuming to produce enough to make any
sort of significant dent on fender's year end balance sheet right now.

I was remiss in linking to the MF review. Here it is:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document ... _id=103764

Having helped servicing original and RI fender amps, I concluded the following.
As far as servicing goes, the originals are a LOT easier to service, replace components etc. The Ri's are not easy, even if you have a shematic, the knowledge and the correct tools.
I admit I'm not a amp tech, I'm just a curious bystander so to speak.

As far as sound goes, I conclude the same. Ri's sound really nice don't get me wrong, but the originals sound mostly better (if serviced propperly)
As said before, you can easely alter the sound of an original with an RI it's more difficult. THe biggest problem ocurs when something goes wrong with the PCB components, then you have a real problem. My amp tech friend (who really knows his stuff btw) hasn't been able to repair a Deluxe RI. Seams something is faulty with the pcb. He's only conclusion, totally rebuild the amp...

But, I think as with most RI's, the speakers are also a weak point. I heard some RI's (Deluxe, Twin, etc) with a decent speaker upgrade and they sounded really good.
Same for tubes used. Chinese ones might sound ok, but nothing beats a Mullard, RCA, Tung Sol, etc...

My bandmate's RI twin, is a nightmare when it comes to servicing. It's super complecated to service and finding faulty ar non working components is very very difficult....

In the end it all comes to what you wanna spent, what you like etc...But even a heavly abused original Fender amp can be brought back to live. I'v seen burned out chassises, burned transformers, all being able to being replaced to origianal specs even with original componets. And sounding fab again.
Burned out ri's are usually for the trash heap....

Just my two cents ofcourse. But a RI should be an RI, not something that is just a marketing thing...But then the price tag will be higher....
I'm just always amazed that + 40 year old amps still work and sound superb....Just AB-ed two BF tremoluxes a '64 (mine) and '65 (Sauerkraut's). They sound very much alike still after + 40 years. Hust amazing. I wonder how good the Ri's will be within 40 years.....

Maybe I'm counting wrong, but the RI seems to have almost twice as many parts (resistors, capacitors, etc...) than the original.  What's up with that?

øøøøøøø wrote:
That's why the PRRI leaves my scratching my head.  WHO on earth would want one when you can get a hand-wired Silverface for cheaper? 

Which reminds me, are the Silverface Volume Boost Princetons and Princeton Reverbs the same circuit as the Blackface amps if you leave the boost pushed in?  Or close enough that a novice could mod it?

ohm-men wrote: I wonder how good the Ri's will be within 40 years.....

Not to reduce things too much, but many reissues will sound very much alike in 40 years....














.... silent. 

cestlamort wrote:

ohm-men wrote: I wonder how good the Ri's will be within 40 years.....

Not to reduce things too much, but many reissues will sound very much alike in 40 years....














.... silent. 

Economies of scale must be a big factor .. if the amp is handbuilt you have to pay a person $x every time they put one together. If the robots do it, once you've set up your assembly line then you're just paying for parts and running costs. Produce enough and you've saved heaps of money.

zhivago wrote: that's the thing...if robots are doing all this work so cheaply, then why are these blackface RI amps so expensive?

I was talking to my mate in the local store, who's been around in music retail forever .. we were discussing an amp made in China that they'd just gotten in (can't remember whether it was a Vox CC or a Marshall of some kind .. something that used to be made in the UK anyway). He claimed that the cost to the company to make them was in the order of £40. Most of the rest of what they charged for it (£600+ IIRC) was either marketing costs or profit.

The inside of that old Princeton looks really neat and simple. I think I'm getting bitten by the same bug that bit Maggie .. looks like I could make that! I guess I could start by fixing the issues on the old Fender amps I have (a tweed Champ and a couple of Tremoluxes).

OK, I'm up for that.

I have no problem with PCB traces or desoldering a capacitor or potentiometer from said PCB in time; lots of technicians can do that.  It will only get better as more techs are exposed to PCB amps. The thing that bothers me is the plastic (nylon?) Molex-type connectors of the ribbon cables.  Will those be a crumbly mess in half a century?  You bet.

On another note, I wonder why these PCBs aren't sold like PC motherboards?  Fender does not have THAT many amps to where it would not make economic sense.  It would be a lot easier to replace one whole than work on it.

øøøøøøø wrote: But you have to take the board OUT to do that.  On a tag-board, the solder joints are right on top and the parts pop right out.  No need to remove the board = way easier.

Oh, no doubt!  Way easier.  I agree with that.