Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:55 pm

Unicorn Warrior wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:06 pm
I can’t answer your questions on the differences between the 65 and 68, but I just came to say that RI fenders are very reliable amps.

A handful of guys in my music circle have basically used Fender RI amps exclusively and all of them have been bullet proof for what seems to be close to a decade now of having known them. I’ve only owned a RI Super Reverb and that was for about a year, but I’ll not think twice if Fender tone is what I was after and wanted something reliable. The RI amps sound good, work, and are affordable.
Great to hear! Let's be real, as good as the Milkman sounds (and it was seriously :? :? :? :?), I'd much rather spend less money. Especially if I was to wait for something used for a good deal,...
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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by lamp » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:52 am

I've had a Princeton Reverb RI, the standard one, for 8 years or so now and it's great. It's reliable and just sounds brilliant. Originally I was going to get the DRRI, but plugged into the Princeton first and walked away with it. The speaker question is an interesting one though. Recently I've been running it through my Orange 2x12 cab, and it sounds awesome. It's not "necessary", but given the choice I'd probably go with the 12" speaker.

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by Larsongs » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:51 am

There are tons of YouTubes on both the 65 & 68 Reissue Fender Series Amp... You should check them out..

This one is about the 68 & gives a good explanation of the difference between it & the 65.

https://youtu.be/-f5o1kkzCcI

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by Veitchy » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:49 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:08 pm
What's different about the new '68 compared to the old circuits?

EDIT: I've been looking through some of the FSR reissues and was wondering what the consensus on a PR with a 10" speaker vs a 12" speaker is. A couple of the FSR's have a 12" speaker and the ad literature makes it sound like "the mod that everyone just had to have", which sounds like bullshit to me.
68 Custom owner here. The basic version is they reduced negative feedback so it breaks up earlier, as well as put a tweed Bassman (Bandmaster?) tone stack in there as well, so there's a bit more presence to the mids to my ear, and not overly bright. It starts to break up at around 7 and just continues to saturate from there. The bass is either adequate of overbearing depending on the room. A lot of people seem unsatisfied with the stock speaker - I'm thinking of swapping mine for a 50s style 10in alnico and see how that flies. To my mind it isn't that great a Princeton if by that you're expecting black panel style cleans and headroom. If one was after a tweedy style amp with an EQ and onboard effects it could be great for you. I'm keeping mine for the moment.

Regarding the 12in speakers, I reckon it could be a fun mod if you've got the speaker and can be bothered making a new baffle. There's clearance enough in the cab, at least in mine, but I don't think it's really going to make the amp that much less directional and once it is cooking the bottom end is going to do what it's going to do anyway. sample size of one, but Jim Campilongo is a freak for Princetons who plays them loud and regularly and I've never heard of him running a 12 in any of his cabs.

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:41 pm

lamp wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:52 am
I've had a Princeton Reverb RI, the standard one, for 8 years or so now and it's great. It's reliable and just sounds brilliant. Originally I was going to get the DRRI, but plugged into the Princeton first and walked away with it. The speaker question is an interesting one though. Recently I've been running it through my Orange 2x12 cab, and it sounds awesome. It's not "necessary", but given the choice I'd probably go with the 12" speaker.
Interesting. I didn't really have any problems with having a PR with a 10" speaker, as that's standard, but when I saw a few of the FSR ones that come with a 12", I was wondering why. Speaker size means less to me than amount of speakers. My first real amp was a Peavey Classic 50/212, and even after changing the speakers out for better ones (Peavey 12" Blue Marvels to Eminence 12" Texas Heats), I didn't love the sound compared to other amps I'd play with single speakers. I could never understand why. That said, I wouldn't avoid an amp if it had 2 or 4 speakers, it's just that I've always liked the sound of single speaker combos I've played.

Larsongs wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:51 am
There are tons of YouTubes on both the 65 & 68 Reissue Fender Series Amp... You should check them out..

This one is about the 68 & gives a good explanation of the difference between it & the 65.

https://youtu.be/-f5o1kkzCcI
I've seen a video or two where there are demos comparing the two, but haven't yet seen any explaining the differences in any detail. Thanks for the link!!

Veitchy wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:49 pm
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:08 pm
What's different about the new '68 compared to the old circuits?

EDIT: I've been looking through some of the FSR reissues and was wondering what the consensus on a PR with a 10" speaker vs a 12" speaker is. A couple of the FSR's have a 12" speaker and the ad literature makes it sound like "the mod that everyone just had to have", which sounds like bullshit to me.
68 Custom owner here. The basic version is they reduced negative feedback so it breaks up earlier, as well as put a tweed Bassman (Bandmaster?) tone stack in there as well, so there's a bit more presence to the mids to my ear, and not overly bright. It starts to break up at around 7 and just continues to saturate from there. The bass is either adequate of overbearing depending on the room. A lot of people seem unsatisfied with the stock speaker - I'm thinking of swapping mine for a 50s style 10in alnico and see how that flies. To my mind it isn't that great a Princeton if by that you're expecting black panel style cleans and headroom. If one was after a tweedy style amp with an EQ and onboard effects it could be great for you. I'm keeping mine for the moment.

Regarding the 12in speakers, I reckon it could be a fun mod if you've got the speaker and can be bothered making a new baffle. There's clearance enough in the cab, at least in mine, but I don't think it's really going to make the amp that much less directional and once it is cooking the bottom end is going to do what it's going to do anyway. sample size of one, but Jim Campilongo is a freak for Princetons who plays them loud and regularly and I've never heard of him running a 12 in any of his cabs.
Thanks for the description!! I really had no preference between '65 tones or '68 tones, though I will say that I do want a Fender-style amp that does cleans really well. I do love some natural-sounding amp break-up, but I've got my Marshall Origin for that, and plenty of drive pedals. I have a friend who was telling me that she thought the '68 took pedals a bit worse than the '65. Pedals are definitely my thing. How does your '68 take pedals?

The 12" speaker isn't a mod I would do (totally fine with 10" speakers that come standard in PR's), but the model I'm looking at comes from the Fender factory with a 12" speaker. I was just curious what the advantage was, if any.
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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by Larsongs » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:53 am

I chose the 65 PRRI because I wanted the traditional Fender Clean in a small Amp. Also, for some Tube Amp distortion at reasonable volume levels.. Not Ear shattering like my Twin...

I also have a 65 DRRI which is a very good Amp as well.. Although, if I were to get one now I'd get the newer 68 because I really like the features & versatility of that Amp. Unfortunately they didn't exist when I got my 65 DRRI....

That said, I would like to add a mint vintage original 65 DRRI or an early Silverface DRRI to my toolbox someday... But, they're quite pricey....

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by Maggieo » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:11 am

I follow Jim Campilongo's method with my PRRI- I turn it up to ten and use the volume knob on my guitar. It works aces, and a Princeton Reverb at full blast is a thing of beauty, especially with a Telecaster.
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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:22 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:41 pm
lamp wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:52 am
I've had a Princeton Reverb RI, the standard one, for 8 years or so now and it's great. It's reliable and just sounds brilliant. Originally I was going to get the DRRI, but plugged into the Princeton first and walked away with it. The speaker question is an interesting one though. Recently I've been running it through my Orange 2x12 cab, and it sounds awesome. It's not "necessary", but given the choice I'd probably go with the 12" speaker.
Interesting. I didn't really have any problems with having a PR with a 10" speaker, as that's standard, but when I saw a few of the FSR ones that come with a 12", I was wondering why. Speaker size means less to me than amount of speakers. My first real amp was a Peavey Classic 50/212, and even after changing the speakers out for better ones (Peavey 12" Blue Marvels to Eminence 12" Texas Heats), I didn't love the sound compared to other amps I'd play with single speakers. I could never understand why. That said, I wouldn't avoid an amp if it had 2 or 4 speakers, it's just that I've always liked the sound of single speaker combos I've played.

Larsongs wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:51 am
There are tons of YouTubes on both the 65 & 68 Reissue Fender Series Amp... You should check them out..

This one is about the 68 & gives a good explanation of the difference between it & the 65.

https://youtu.be/-f5o1kkzCcI
I've seen a video or two where there are demos comparing the two, but haven't yet seen any explaining the differences in any detail. Thanks for the link!!

Veitchy wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:49 pm
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:08 pm
What's different about the new '68 compared to the old circuits?

EDIT: I've been looking through some of the FSR reissues and was wondering what the consensus on a PR with a 10" speaker vs a 12" speaker is. A couple of the FSR's have a 12" speaker and the ad literature makes it sound like "the mod that everyone just had to have", which sounds like bullshit to me.
68 Custom owner here. The basic version is they reduced negative feedback so it breaks up earlier, as well as put a tweed Bassman (Bandmaster?) tone stack in there as well, so there's a bit more presence to the mids to my ear, and not overly bright. It starts to break up at around 7 and just continues to saturate from there. The bass is either adequate of overbearing depending on the room. A lot of people seem unsatisfied with the stock speaker - I'm thinking of swapping mine for a 50s style 10in alnico and see how that flies. To my mind it isn't that great a Princeton if by that you're expecting black panel style cleans and headroom. If one was after a tweedy style amp with an EQ and onboard effects it could be great for you. I'm keeping mine for the moment.

Regarding the 12in speakers, I reckon it could be a fun mod if you've got the speaker and can be bothered making a new baffle. There's clearance enough in the cab, at least in mine, but I don't think it's really going to make the amp that much less directional and once it is cooking the bottom end is going to do what it's going to do anyway. sample size of one, but Jim Campilongo is a freak for Princetons who plays them loud and regularly and I've never heard of him running a 12 in any of his cabs.
Thanks for the description!! I really had no preference between '65 tones or '68 tones, though I will say that I do want a Fender-style amp that does cleans really well. I do love some natural-sounding amp break-up, but I've got my Marshall Origin for that, and plenty of drive pedals. I have a friend who was telling me that she thought the '68 took pedals a bit worse than the '65. Pedals are definitely my thing. How does your '68 take pedals?

The 12" speaker isn't a mod I would do (totally fine with 10" speakers that come standard in PR's), but the model I'm looking at comes from the Fender factory with a 12" speaker. I was just curious what the advantage was, if any.
I tend to roll off some bass on any Fender-style amp. To me a 12” sounds a little spongier overall and little softer in the highs. It’s pretty subtle though.

More options in the 12” format though if you want to experiment.

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by andy_tchp » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:21 pm

Try before you buy.

I was very excited by the '68 Custom' series. Then I played them. Much, much prefer the 65 PRRI.

And zero need for a 12" speaker in a Princeton.
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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by tdbajus » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:05 pm

Doesn't the guy who builds Waterslide guitars do all his demos through one of them newfangled Spark amps? Or does he use the plugin?

I would have never guessed it wasn't a nice Fender. They seem to be cheap, too!

RE: Princetons:

1) I think they are a bit too loud for home use. They tend to be too quiet for live use with a drummer, though, obvs, YMMV. They are, IMHO, the perfect volume for recording - they have a enough juice to get you some feedback, but you don't have to destroy your ears if you wear the cans. I friggin' love them, don't get me wrong.

2) If you like the Chris Stapleton amp, which is not very BF sounding, imho, check out a Vibrolux if you get a chance. I A/B'd them at Chicago Music Exchange, liked their Victoria built Vibrolux (Chicagolux) more, and am still wildly in love with it. The circuits are, to my understanding, very, very close. I don't know if it's the cab, that Victoria uses better guts, or what have you, but that amp is fuckin' magic.

3) If you do get a Princeton, maybe take a look at reducing the negative feedback to around where it is on the Vibrolux, or installing a negative feedback pot. The distortion on the Princeton can get kind of ratty to my ear - reducing the negative feedback makes it sound lovely, maybe pushing it towards tweed Deluxe deliciousness.

4) My guess is that you might be very happy with a nice, high quality BF Champ/Vibro champ. Great amp for playing at home. Great amp for recording. Just a great amp. Mine is modded all to hell - much heavier output transformer, tone stack values changed to be the same as a Princeton, and a Weber 8" that sounds just as delightful as a 10".

In Covidland, I basically play my vibrolux and my Bronco (same thing as a vibro champ) Between the two of them, I can get just about any sound I have in my head, and the small size make overdubbing easy.

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by Larsongs » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:53 am

Whether or not a Princeton is too loud for home use depends on the size of your home, size of your property, how you play, with or without Pedals etc. IMO it's about as close as you can get for a USA built, xlnt quality, sounding, features & reasonable priced Amp you can buy...

For those who think it's too small for Band use.... Most Pro Bands Mic their Amps.. They have their Stage Sound & a Sound Guy Mixing FOH Sound through the Board....

This technique is used commonly used by Club & Gigging Bands...

Simply put a SM57 in front of your little Princeton, get your Stage Sound, run Mic through the Board & FOH System.. You can be as huge as you want.. And your entire Band can use xlnt Dynamics, haul more compact Gear & still sound Killer....

I used to haul a Marshall Half Stack to everything... It was stupid crazy... More Power than I could ever use.. Then a Fender Twin which was about the same.. Then a Deluze Reverb which made much more sense.. But, it took up a lot of room when I travelled so I got a Princeton.. Just about the perfect Amp.. Out of the Box.. Nothing needed to be changed...

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by andy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:49 am

A 10 in a Princeton is so good. Worth keeping. But no real harm in a 12, either! My only real beef is alnico. I rented a PRRI in wine red with a beige grille and a Jensen Alnico 12 and it SO BASSY!! Almost unusable.
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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by tdbajus » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:51 pm

Larsongs wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:53 am
For those who think it's too small for Band use.... Most Pro Bands Mic their Amps.. They have their Stage Sound & a Sound Guy Mixing FOH Sound through the Board....

This technique is used commonly used by Club & Gigging Bands...

Simply put a SM57 in front of your little Princeton, get your Stage Sound, run Mic through the Board & FOH System.. You can be as huge as you want.. And your entire Band can use xlnt Dynamics, haul more compact Gear & still sound Killer....

I used to haul a Marshall Half Stack to everything... It was stupid crazy... More Power than I could ever use.. Then a Fender Twin which was about the same.. Then a Deluze Reverb which made much more sense.. But, it took up a lot of room when I travelled so I got a Princeton.. Just about the perfect Amp.. Out of the Box.. Nothing needed to be changed...



1) most bands don't mic their amps for rehearsals, and
2) 99.99% of people in bands do not bring their own soundman with them to every gig,
3) most gigs do not have perfect stage sound, and
4) there is quite a bit of difference between a 12 watt amp with a 10" speaker and a 100 watt amp pushing a 4x12 cabinet.

Now, in my own experience playing gigs for the last couple of decades, if you can not hear your amp over the drummer on stage without sound reinforcement, you are asking for trouble. Perhaps you perform only in stadiums with your own road crew; it must be nice.

For those of use playing in a 150 seat room as the second act, it's safe to say hassling the soundperson throughout the set because you can't hear your guitar through the vocal wedge isn't going to make you any friends. And I don't make enough money at gigs to be paying someone a couple hundred bucks a night when I can just bring a 25 watt Deluxe and save everyone the trouble. It's only a few inches wider.

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by ElephantDNA » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:10 pm

tdbajus wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:51 pm

1) most bands don't mic their amps for rehearsals, and
2) 99.99% of people in bands do not bring their own soundman with them to every gig,
3) most gigs do not have perfect stage sound, and
4) there is quite a bit of difference between a 12 watt amp with a 10" speaker and a 100 watt amp pushing a 4x12 cabinet.

Now, in my own experience playing gigs for the last couple of decades, if you can not hear your amp over the drummer on stage without sound reinforcement, you are asking for trouble. Perhaps you perform only in stadiums with your own road crew; it must be nice.

For those of use playing in a 150 seat room as the second act, it's safe to say hassling the soundperson throughout the set because you can't hear your guitar through the vocal wedge isn't going to make you any friends. And I don't make enough money at gigs to be paying someone a couple hundred bucks a night when I can just bring a 25 watt Deluxe and save everyone the trouble. It's only a few inches wider.
I think the less you put in the hands of the soundperson the better. There are good ones and bad ones. If you can get it sounding the way you want it to sound with minimal interference from them, I would recommend that option.

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Re: Gassing For A Classic Fender Type Amp

Post by Larsongs » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:10 pm

ElephantDNA wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:10 pm
tdbajus wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:51 pm

1) most bands don't mic their amps for rehearsals, and
2) 99.99% of people in bands do not bring their own soundman with them to every gig,
3) most gigs do not have perfect stage sound, and
4) there is quite a bit of difference between a 12 watt amp with a 10" speaker and a 100 watt amp pushing a 4x12 cabinet.

Now, in my own experience playing gigs for the last couple of decades, if you can not hear your amp over the drummer on stage without sound reinforcement, you are asking for trouble. Perhaps you perform only in stadiums with your own road crew; it must be nice.

For those of use playing in a 150 seat room as the second act, it's safe to say hassling the soundperson throughout the set because you can't hear your guitar through the vocal wedge isn't going to make you any friends. And I don't make enough money at gigs to be paying someone a couple hundred bucks a night when I can just bring a 25 watt Deluxe and save everyone the trouble. It's only a few inches wider.
I think the less you put in the hands of the soundperson the better. There are good ones and bad ones. If you can get it sounding the way you want it to sound with minimal interference from them, I would recommend that option.
If a Drummer is so loud on Stage that you can't hear a PRRI on Stage playing to a room of 150 people you need a new Drummer..

Our Lead Guitarist does our FOH Sound.. He has great Ears & a wireless setup.. So it's no problem Micing our Amps if need be... We could also have my Brother do Sound for a % of the Take... No sweat...

Every major Touring Artist has Sound Guys.. They aren't any good??? Huh???

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