Re: Good clanky solid state amps
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:43 am
How about we let Andy tell us? Rig Rundown - Gang of Four's Andy Gill
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Well, have you ever gotten other types of tones through that setup that you're truly happy with?aboutstairs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:54 pmI use the Kemper direct into my recording setup (so through studio monitors) or into headphones. I don't own a standalone power amp. Profiles-wise I just use the popular ones, MBritt and TopJimi etc., with a general preference for Fender Twins and the brightest medium-gain Marshall SLs I could find. I'll admit with profiles I kind of just use them out of the box and haven't looked too much into tweaking the parameters. I have the factory Roland JC and the MBritt one and they've just never quite done it for me, but maybe they just need some adjustment.
Oh yes, I'm Marshall'd and Vox'd up to my ears and there's a number of profiles I love for sure, it's really just this particular sound I can't seem to make happen. I've used the speaker in the DRRI with heads before so I do have that to an extent (Eminence Cannabis Rex in there though), and I'll take a look at a power amp for the Kemper sooner or later for gigs etc anyway. For a while my setup was so geared around recording dozens of takes in my bedroom for tunes that replacing the mic'd Deluxe with a Kemper profile was a godsend and sounded close enough to my ear (and FWIW I couldn't get a blackface sound I liked out of any plugins, not Helix, Nembrini, IK, NI, Brainworx, Scuffham, Positive Grid, not that I need to sell you on the Kemper here ), and using a Kemper with a cab and miking it up seemed silly. The fact that I've never actually heard the Kemper as an "amp in the room" is definitely something to think about.mbene085 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:34 pmWell, have you ever gotten other types of tones through that setup that you're truly happy with?aboutstairs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:54 pmI use the Kemper direct into my recording setup (so through studio monitors) or into headphones. I don't own a standalone power amp. Profiles-wise I just use the popular ones, MBritt and TopJimi etc., with a general preference for Fender Twins and the brightest medium-gain Marshall SLs I could find. I'll admit with profiles I kind of just use them out of the box and haven't looked too much into tweaking the parameters. I have the factory Roland JC and the MBritt one and they've just never quite done it for me, but maybe they just need some adjustment.
Because a Kemper through monitors really can't be compared to any of the amps you're cross-shopping here. You're basically listened to a modeled tone of an amp with a mic in front of the cab, recorded and played back on monitors. It always sounds different from being in the room with the amp. Most people listen to guitar cabinets off-axis but monitors on-axis, for one. More high end, more direct sound, less reflected room sound compared to an amp in the room.
If you get a clean solid state amp, be sure to get one with an effects loop. If you run your Kemper into the loop input, you'll be bypassing the preamp and just using its power amp and speaker. Disable the speaker IR on the Kemper, and you then get an A/B of the solid state preamp and the Kemper through a guitar cab. Plus, you can then use the Kemper as an amp in the room, too.
Or, you can get a cheap power amp like the EHX 44 Magnum and a guitar cab, and run the Kemper that way (or a nice, expensive power amp if you're so inclined). A lot of people find the missing link in their modeling experience when they hear the modeler through a power amp and guitar cab sitting on the floor instead of a cab IR and monitors pointed at their ears. It's the same amp, but a totally different way of listening to it. Nobody sits with their ear 1" from the speaker of a guitar amp, but that's how they're recorded and modeled. Super useful for recording or live situations where you'd be putting a mic on the cab anyway, but not how most guitarists are used to experiencing their amps.
It's like the difference between listening to someone sing in a room with you, and listening to them singing into a handheld mic played back through monitors or IEMs. A ton of direct, close-mic'd tone and not nearly as much room reflection as you're used to, with the added colouration of the microphone used. Recognizable as the same timbre, but yet sounding totally distinct.
Yeah, in scouring the internet as much as I could for info the best I could get from actual interviews is that Andy Gill used one specific old Carlsbro for a while and then 6L6 Peaveys in the 2010s. Anecdotally some Lab Series stuff too but those aren't easy to find either.Maggieo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:43 amHow about we let Andy tell us? Rig Rundown - Gang of Four's Andy Gill
Holy absolute fuckin moley are people trying to get rid of them in the UK. Just dozens and dozens on FB Marketplace, almost all way under 100 GBP and some lying around for months. Yikes.johnnysomersett wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:49 pmAh, yeah in the States they're not particularly common. I've sourced a couple of HH amps for people before that struggled over there... HH and Carlsbro amps are so common they're almost used as doorstops hereaboutstairs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:55 pmBased in West Coast USA. Actual Carlsbros are hard to find on Reverb and eBay.johnnysomersett wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:44 pmPeavey or Traynor will both do this in spades.
Where are you based? Theres almost always a few Stingrays for sale in the UK. I just checked and there's 3 on FB Marketplace right now. and cheap.
Apparently Carlsbro made the Suzz as a standalone pedal and the circuit is supposedly very similar to the MXR Distortion+/DOD 250. If they just put that onboard the amps, that's what that is. I've been looking for an excuse to grab a 250 clone anyway.jorri wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:10 amTrue, they are pretty british things i suppose. Even the music school had an HH for guitar lessons i went to as a kid.johnnysomersett wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:49 pmAh, yeah in the States they're not particularly common. I've sourced a couple of HH amps for people before that struggled over there... HH and Carlsbro amps are so common they're almost used as doorstops hereaboutstairs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:55 pm
Based in West Coast USA. Actual Carlsbros are hard to find on Reverb and eBay.
But that cyan colour front panel lighting? Almost worth using just for that. I find them the grittiest out of what i mentioned.
Worth noting both carlsboro and HH have tranformers, despite having no tubes, am told this is a large part of tube amps sound, so there is an element of grittiness or odd harmonics one might not expect from contemporary solid states. And i dont know if the distortion utilised that but that "valve sound" or "suzz" are great, like better than tubescreamer/bluesdriver great imho.
Ooh i did not know that because i actually considered reverse engineering it into a pedal.aboutstairs wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:23 amApparently Carlsbro made the Suzz as a standalone pedal and the circuit is supposedly very similar to the MXR Distortion+/DOD 250. If they just put that onboard the amps, that's what that is. I've been looking for an excuse to grab a 250 clone anyway.jorri wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:10 amTrue, they are pretty british things i suppose. Even the music school had an HH for guitar lessons i went to as a kid.johnnysomersett wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:49 pm
Ah, yeah in the States they're not particularly common. I've sourced a couple of HH amps for people before that struggled over there... HH and Carlsbro amps are so common they're almost used as doorstops here
But that cyan colour front panel lighting? Almost worth using just for that. I find them the grittiest out of what i mentioned.
Worth noting both carlsboro and HH have tranformers, despite having no tubes, am told this is a large part of tube amps sound, so there is an element of grittiness or odd harmonics one might not expect from contemporary solid states. And i dont know if the distortion utilised that but that "valve sound" or "suzz" are great, like better than tubescreamer/bluesdriver great imho.
I didnt analyse the circuit but if it was a clone, its one with no diodes, fully IC, which might explain its amp-like behaviour.jorri wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:37 amOoh i did not know that because i actually considered reverse engineering it into a pedal.aboutstairs wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:23 amApparently Carlsbro made the Suzz as a standalone pedal and the circuit is supposedly very similar to the MXR Distortion+/DOD 250. If they just put that onboard the amps, that's what that is. I've been looking for an excuse to grab a 250 clone anyway.jorri wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:10 am
True, they are pretty british things i suppose. Even the music school had an HH for guitar lessons i went to as a kid.
But that cyan colour front panel lighting? Almost worth using just for that. I find them the grittiest out of what i mentioned.
Worth noting both carlsboro and HH have tranformers, despite having no tubes, am told this is a large part of tube amps sound, so there is an element of grittiness or odd harmonics one might not expect from contemporary solid states. And i dont know if the distortion utilised that but that "valve sound" or "suzz" are great, like better than tubescreamer/bluesdriver great imho.
Ive never actually used a D+/250.
Suzz can be played clean up to a doomy amp drive.
Its very warm sounding to me.
Also, depends where in the circuit?
really, the later high-wattage fenders (especially the UL models) are clean and hi-fi enough to get the kinds of sounds most of these SS amps can get... even down to similarly harsh OD.fuzzjunkie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:21 pmI moved on from that pretty quickly to Fender amps and tape echoes because no one in Texas wanted anything to do with SS amps in the '80s. Had to be tubes.
Yeah, Acoustic Ctrl Corp stuff is pretty plentiful on Reverb in the States and not super expensive, though it's harder to find demos of people using them on guitar than bass.cestlamort wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:14 pmMaybe keep an eye out for the old Acoustic amps too, as they can be $100 of solid state fun and almost a less Hi-Fi JC alternative.
The peavey chorus combos are great as well
Oh yeah, it was less about sound and more about aesthetics. Texas , gotta be manly and play tube amps type peer pressure. Even in the “break all the rules” punk camp. SS were seen as cheap and inferior even if they weren’t breaking down in the middle of a tour like a tube amp.noisepunk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:19 pmreally, the later high-wattage fenders (especially the UL models) are clean and hi-fi enough to get the kinds of sounds most of these SS amps can get... even down to similarly harsh OD.fuzzjunkie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:21 pmI moved on from that pretty quickly to Fender amps and tape echoes because no one in Texas wanted anything to do with SS amps in the '80s. Had to be tubes.
oh yeah, i got what you were saying–that isn't so far off from how things were in denver when i first started gigging.fuzzjunkie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:58 amOh yeah, it was less about sound and more about aesthetics. Texas , gotta be manly and play tube amps type peer pressure. Even in the “break all the rules” punk camp. SS were seen as cheap and inferior even if they weren’t breaking down in the middle of a tour like a tube amp.