Fender Head Recommendations & Project

[LossyShades]

Hello!

I've been a longtime reader but this is my first topic post. Before getting into it, I just wanted to say what a pleasure it is to be part of this forum. It's been one of my all-time favorite places on the internet for quite a few years now. I've learned so much about the guitars I love here and have genuinely enjoyed all the other bits and bobs and real life that happens here in between the guitar and music talk.

So, I'm hoping to tap into the hive here about opinions from those with knowledge of vintage amps and restoration projects. I've been thinking about getting a head/cab setup to replace a Twin Reverb (65 RI) combo lately. I do love the sound of my Twin so I want something similar but could probably do with lower wattage as I'm not concerned about perfectly clean headroom at super loud volumes and actually would maybe prefer a bit of breakup. I'm currently running it in stereo with a Deluxe Reverb (68 RI) which is also great but I love the fullness of the Twin with the two 12s. But I'm afraid it's the same old story of the Twin being entirely too heavy proving completely true for me. So that's led me to look at the Showman, Bandmaster, and Bassman. I know the sounds vary between them but not having experience with any of them, I'm feeling open to trying any of them out and not ready to fork over dreamin' money for a specific model or year. I' have been thinking maybe it's time to try out a more vintage type amp as both my current amps are reissues and although I'm happy with mine for the most part, I've heard they don't compare to non-master volume hand-wired amps. I've considered the Bandmaster Reverb because I do like the onboard reverb and they seem to usually be a bit more affordable but I also most always use pedals for reverb anyway so I don't think that's a dealbreaker. I've also considered a Twin in head form, or even switching it all up and trying a VOX AC30 in head form. The Bassman is intriguing because of all the lore and the natural breakup at lower volume. I'm all ears if anybody has a passionate recommendation on any to start with or to avoid. Or even other brands in the same vein. Divided by 13 and Benson are on my radar but the prices start to jump considerably.

However, here's where it gets a little interesting. A local posting listed a bunch of gear including a number of Bassman amps for sale for parts that look like they've been subject to some sort of mad scientist. There are three Blackface and two Silverface amps removed from their cabinets and set up in one large rack. It looks like they've maybe been modified with master volume switches. The poster says he's inherited them and doesn't know much more than they were modified (he says by a "genius"). There are only three photos and it's hard to tell what's really going on but they don't look massively destroyed or anything. I know it's not a lot to go on but was curious if anyone here would think this would be worth a shot to pick up one of these to restore. I feel confident I could build the head cabinet but would outsource the amp repair/restoration as that would definitely be above my abilities. I go back and forth between thinking this might be a way to learn more about amp circuits as well as maybe getting a good deal on a vintage head OR it could be a complete waste of time and money, buying somebody else's junked-up project that would end up costing more than a working unit.

TLDR: Great to be a part of the OSG family. What head would you rec? Does this look like a terrible idea?

Thanks in advance for any opinions or insight!

[Steadyriot.]

Oh wow mad scientist indeed! Is he selling the rack all at once or the amps separately?

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

Hello Brettjorg and welcome to OSG!

Wow. That project sure looks like fun. I imagine someone had it in their studio… to choose from either specialty in sound scaping.
But I don‘t know how salvageable it will be… but let‘s say you find a second person who could be interested in it… and you get one silver and one black each… and the fifth one will be salvaged for parts/or goes to the one with less luck in the first two…

For head recommendations:
I‘m a head and cab guy too. Just aesthetically more pleasing for me… and more pairing options to choose from.

What are you looking for sound-wise? And look wise? Blackface/Silverface/Blonde-Brownface?

A Showman will get you probably closest to your Twin Sound but without the Reverb. Have you considered putting either of your amps in a headshell? So that the Deluxe Reverb could see 2x12 and the Twin loses some weight?

I have a Dripedge Bandmaster (non reverb) AB763 circuit - which is the same (at least Blackface era) circuit as in the Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux, Showman, Twin Reverb, etc… just different wattage. They are still out there and relatively cheap.

Later Silverface Amps also have different circuits…I haven‘t tried either of the Silverface Reverb Heads (Bandmaster/Showman) as I don‘t like their proportions very much… but they are as you said cheaper than other heads of that time and are said to sound great too! Master volume models came in 76 - but if you want to have natural tube saturation sensation at a moderate volume… stay away from the ultra linear models which came in 77…

I also had the opportunity to compare a Bassman 100 and a Bassman 50 from two friends (both Silverface) a few years back… if you want to use it for breakup guitar sound… the 50 is your fastest ticket. But if you want at least a little bit more clean headroom - the Bassman 100 has got you covered. Great sounding amp, perfect pedal platform. Nice drive tones too (thanks to the Master volume at bearable volume too). I got the Bandmaster after that month of comparing those two… because I couldn‘t find either on the used market at that time.

I can also vouch for the first generation (non swirly font) Supersonic Amps. Haven‘t had the opportunity to test a later model.
Two classic voicings - Bassman and Vibrolux/Deluxe/Twin depending on the model/generation. And a Gain Channel that I don‘t use very much at the moment (as I run my Reverb in the front input). Can‘t say how „good“ the onboard reverb is on the 22/100 - but they‘re missing the Trem if that should be an issue for you…

My most recent buy was a replica of a blonde 6G6-B Bassman (the rockabilly amp) - which sounds great and looks great… I got it for <800€ shipped - it would be a hassle free option to get the tones you want without fearing for a vintage piece… but you won’t make a lot of money if you plan to resell it. A vintage amp could also be seen as an investment. But I don‘t have the money for it…


To me the idea of the 68 Custom Amps is great - but I‘d like to see a head of that series that comes with onboard Trem and Spring Reverb.
And they should definitely make a 63 Custom line with all blonde/oxblood aesthetics and onboard 6G15 Reverbs and Harmonic Tremolo.

On the cheap (400-600) as you mentioned Vox - the Vox AC50CPH/AC100CPH can produce AC30 top boost like tones + have a crunch channel. The onboard reverb is a Belton Brick (Chip) but it sounds decent. The 100W version is veeeery heavy tough and they‘re made in China… if that should be a turn off. But it‘s good enough for Troy Van Leuwen…

Sorry for the long post. I hope at least some of the information was helpful.

In short:
Bassman 100 = pedalboard platform and great cleans with a little bit more punch
Bassman 50 = similar but less headroom and arguably a sweeter drive sound.
Bandmaster = „little Showman“
Showman ~ Twin Head

If you want onboard reverb it gets trickier:
Silverface Bandmaster Reverb/Showman Reverb

Reissues and Recent models: Deluxe Reverb Head
Supersonic Heads (no Tremolo, Reverb just on the 22 (Deluxe-?) and the 100 (Twin-Reverb?) models. The 100W model can also be dialed back to 25 Watts.

Leaving out all 80s heads because I never got into their aesthetics…so they never were interesting for me.

[Surfysonic]

Interesting options! I'm a big fan of Bassman amps and have owned a blonde '62 Bassman and tweed '59 RI LTD. Unfortunately, I had to move them on for paying down gear debt/downsizing purposes. The potential Bassman project you're looking into would be worthwile for a great amp build and getting some technical education, too.

I'm primarily a tube amp guy (prefer brown faceplate era Fender amps) but I've owned a few '65 RI Twin Reverbs along the way. Definitely don't miss the weight of those beasts but I really enjoyed their sound. I owned them prior to becoming enamored with the brown/blonde era amps.

Sounds like you're a tube amp guy but I'd also put out the idea of considering a Tone Master amp for gigging out. I have owned the Fender Tone Master Twin (blonde with Celestion speakers). I know, not a head/cab config and obviously, not a tube amp. I had no problem taking it out to play. I eventually moved it on mainly for downsizing purposes. You can find them used for decent prices, too. While not a tube amp, the TM Twin Reverb is super lightweight (35 lbs) and work well in a band mix. The attenuator function and other capabilities are convenient, too. Yes, they're close to tube amps but not quite exact. Doesn't really take long to get over that and appreciate it for what's positive about it.

I recently tried out a used Tone Master Super Reverb. I love 4x10 configuration speakers, but not the tube amp version's weight. It sounded great but the shop had it near full retail new price. I've been on the lookout for them used on Reverb from time to time. Then I heard a very unsubstantiated rumor that Fender's next Tone Master offering might be a Vibroverb (one of my fave amps). So I've held off. Also didn't help that I recently pulled the trigger on a '63 Bandmaster. Still, I'll likely get another Tone Master amp for the convenience of playing out when called for.

Good luck in any case! Definitely intrigued about the potential Bassman project!

[LossyShades]

Thanks for the replies! So interesting to hear what people gravitate to.

So I let the bassman project(s) slip by. Now of course I’ll probably always imagine the amazing deal I could have had there but on the other hand maybe I dodged a bullet?

I would love to A/B all of these options to see what feels best. I was just reading people’s replies in the WTFuzz topic about how dialing a sound when solo is so different than doing it in a mix. I feel the this way with testing amps too. I struggle with that for sure and definitely find I need a sharper, brighter sound than I go for solo to cut through the incredibly loud (and sorta large) band I play with. I find in I’m EQing differently each time between playing solo and with the group.

I have wondered about the tone master versions of the Twin and Super as well. I imagine that in the mix it probably would work just fine but I’ll admit to being skeptical of anything without tubes. Guilty of believing the hype perhaps. I’m not sure if it was here or on surfguitar101 that someone said “Tone Master don’t surf” which put me off their trail for a bit but I could imagine a double Twin TM setup being pretty sweet. I’m going to see if I can hunt down some older head units to try out, would love to check out the Brownface circuits.

Somehow the bandmaster reverb seems to call to me. Seems like the right wattage, more affordable price and even the sorta the ugly duckling effect I guess. I remember when I first saw those I thought they must have two or three very small speakers in that head with their oddly tall height. Actually that would be sorta sweet, like a variable wattage dual champ head that could pair with bigger cabs when needed.

Despite these bigger combos and big pedal board I lug around for rehearsal and gigs, the setup I actually play most (and love) is my seventies champ with a JPTR Jive and a Surfybear compact in front.

[HarktheUmpire]

Those project amps look pretty bad tbh, so I think you may well have dodged a bullet. Unless they were very cheap. I’m no expert, but looking at the 3 blackfaces, I see added plugs and mystery switches, serious corrosion, extreme modding in the middle one. At the same time, in the bottom one which looks to be least messed with, there’s still the original capacitors that are bound to be leaking or to at least have drifted off-spec. A lot of signs that this was not the work of a genius. A very sloppy genius at best.

[HarktheUmpire]

On the topic more generally; I’m a head and cab fan too. I just find it way more practical for carrying and to combine with different cabs/speaker combinations depending on the situation. 30-50 watts (2x 6L6 plus a medium-sized transformer, basically) is the sweet spot for me. I can take or leave in-built effects, although of course Fender‘s spring reverb is very nice. The tremolo is nice on all, but only really something special in the blonde models, I think. A Bandmaster Reverb is a great choice.

[46346]

^^^^ yeah! dodged a bullet? more like you wisely did not pickup an armload of hand grenades!

those Bassman amps can all be returned to glory over time, but if you want to actually play music for the next couple months, you can be glad you are not burdened with additional ambitious projects. i have enjoyed my time spent learning about and restoring vintage amps, but it's time consuming even when you have professional help.

i think your inclination toward the Bandmaster Reverb is on track. and a Bassman head that is far less molested than those would be worth investigating, too. Showman, too. they all can be easily, modestly modified if you want to experiment with breakup curves, but that isn't at all necessary when starting out with a solid example.

funny thing in my case, i put my Blonde Bassman into a 3x10 combo cab, and it's never sounded better. (search "Bassmania" here if your curious). i find it more convenient than lugging the yuge 2x12 separate cab. and for my other gig, i recently finally got my first ever Twin Reverb (also blonde), it is so deep and clean and clear and Fendery perfect ( i add steel guitar and electric piano to the usual guitar on that gig) . i'm an older cat, so i do grumble a bit about the crazy heft, but the sound comes first! and i have these big-wheeled dollies that i use for all my cartage, the key is not to be in a hurry. i never think about the weight but for a couple minutes of load in/out...

but i totally get your quest for the piggyback ways. it's fun to try different cabs, too. i got a Marshall 4x12 that i can run one head to all four 12's or even two stacked heads into top/bottom 12" pairs, go nuts, etc.


i'm curious, where do you live, because i'm wondering how likely it is you could try some of these amps in person somewhere nearby. cheers.

[ludobag1]

if you love your twin buy a head shell and put in ,i have a friend who put a showman head in a twin cab
the twin is heavy ,by putting in headshell you win more than 10 kg ,but you have to bring a cab (15 kg to 40 kg if you go to fender cab)

[Surfysonic]

Thanks for the replies! So interesting to hear what people gravitate to.

So I let the bassman project(s) slip by. Now of course I’ll probably always imagine the amazing deal I could have had there but on the other hand maybe I dodged a bullet?

I would love to A/B all of these options to see what feels best. I was just reading people’s replies in the WTFuzz topic about how dialing a sound when solo is so different than doing it in a mix. I feel the this way with testing amps too. I struggle with that for sure and definitely find I need a sharper, brighter sound than I go for solo to cut through the incredibly loud (and sorta large) band I play with. I find in I’m EQing differently each time between playing solo and with the group.

I have wondered about the tone master versions of the Twin and Super as well. I imagine that in the mix it probably would work just fine but I’ll admit to being skeptical of anything without tubes. Guilty of believing the hype perhaps. I’m not sure if it was here or on surfguitar101 that someone said “Tone Master don’t surf” which put me off their trail for a bit but I could imagine a double Twin TM setup being pretty sweet. I’m going to see if I can hunt down some older head units to try out, would love to check out the Brownface circuits.

Somehow the bandmaster reverb seems to call to me. Seems like the right wattage, more affordable price and even the sorta the ugly duckling effect I guess. I remember when I first saw those I thought they must have two or three very small speakers in that head with their oddly tall height. Actually that would be sorta sweet, like a variable wattage dual champ head that could pair with bigger cabs when needed.

Despite these bigger combos and big pedal board I lug around for rehearsal and gigs, the setup I actually play most (and love) is my seventies champ with a JPTR Jive and a Surfybear compact in front.

I'm only open to the idea of Tone Masters because I hit 60 in 2 months. I disagree with the SG101 guy who said TM's don't surf. Anything can surf with an outboard reverb unit. You're good to go with your SurfyBear Compact (l love mine as well as my two SurfyBear Classics). Lot of guys on SG101 also use a Quilter Superblock 101 (SS) head out for gigs, too.

I hope the Bandmaster Reverb works out for you! FWIW, I recommend checking out a Tone Master and having a play on one to determine if it can work for you (home or gigs/rehearsals) instead of buying into the negative hype. I believe with time, Fender will improve the technology - they're pretty darn close to tubes now. Again, this is coming from a guy with 6 tube amps that I adore. There's always room for both tube amps and non-tube amps.

[LossyShades]

Thanks again for the input.

I live in San Diego so not too far from the birthplace of all these Fenders (at least at one time) but between work and two young daughters, it's more of a time issue than anything else to track these down for trying them out. Maybe my best bet would be to do a safari up to LA to some of the esteemed vintage shops?

Curious if anyone here plays through a Divided by 13?

[OffYourFace]

oh man, how much did the bassman rack sell for? I love the blackface bassman.

The difference in sound between the blackface and silverface amps is subtle, it's more about the feel. The only real difference between the two amps is the power transformer... the BF has a center tap and the SF has an artificial center tap. There could be a difference in the winding too but I'm not sure. I prefer the experience of playing a BF Bassman amp (i have a '67) after having had 3 different SF models in the past.

[øøøøøøø]

If they sell for decent prices, basket case fender amps like that can be a good value in a utility (not collector) amp.

All parts you could ever need for a restoration are widely available, and there’s almost nothing you can do to one of those amps that would render it unsalvageable or unrestorable

I will say if you like the twin reverb I would recommend staying with your first set of instincts and start with similar Fender amps—voxen, bensons and /13s are all voiced quite differently from the black- and silver-panel Fender amps

[LossyShades]

oh man, how much did the bassman rack sell for? I love the blackface bassman.

I'm not sure, he was vague on prices. I think he was looking for $200 for an individual head. Maybe could have been worth it as a gamble but just as well it's gone now.

I'd imagine some here can relate to that weird feeling of GASing for something and checking in on it daily and then having that gut punch to find it's sold, but in a way, it's a relief.

[ThePearDream]

I'd imagine some here can relate to that weird feeling of GASing for something and checking in on it daily and then having that gut punch to find it's sold, but in a way, it's a relief.

I know that story brother.



I don't even know how to play drums.