marshall questions... heavymetal players apply here.

[dain]

ok, so here's the deal.  i have a small commercial studio and i have been hired to do quite a bit of heavy metal sounding stuff. 

i have some money that i probably should be investing in a high yield savings, but as we all know...that ain't gonna happen.  i'd rather invest
in a piece of equipment that i can use and then sell when it appreciates in value, or when i need the cash to buy another offset on ebay (which
ever comes first... )

so, i have decided to look at a classic marshall head for A)the immediate heavy metal usefullness and B) the investment opportunity.

the only problem is i'm an old shoegazer who was weaned on roland JC120s and i don't know nothin about no fancy high gain metal amps.

so here's the question.  what classic marshall has the best "oh my god you have one of those in your studio!" value, while still giving me
access to tones ranging from jimi to thrash?

here's what i know, tell me if i'm wrong:

if i'm after the "normal" high gain thrash sound, and old 60s plexi is going to be useless right?  after toying with all the modeled amps in my
line 6 gadget (i realize this is no way to tell) i'm finding the jcm800 to be the closest to what i'm after in sound.  is there a 60s version of this kind of metal power?  do i have to find a modded one?  i guess i just need to know what model is the most used in that arena because there are so many (jtm, jcm, plexi)  that i'm getting kinda lost.

and yes i am looking for a vintage one.  the "cooler" the better.  i know its not cool to be normal but in the hollywood game you only get paid when you sound like everybody else...   and it is not for an offset... except maybe on weekends...

[Jay]

Well, to be fair, those amps probably don't have a ton of investment potential because they are far more common and far more recent then the real valuable Marshall's are but eventually everything goes up right?  Anyway, I think the JCM800 is on the right track and is what I'd recommend.  Particularly the 2205 50watt channel switching head (a later version is better due some earlier design flaws apparently) or a Silver Jubilee.  They both use a diode clipping circuit to add additional gain in the preamp and I think the Jubilee is just an improved version of the same circuit.  Very very cool amp and great for metal tones (but not only metal tones) and happens to be one of the models on the pod I think.  I would also consider a copy of Amplitube if I were you.  That thing has some seriously AWESOME high gain sounds on tap...  Seriously.  And in your case, you can probably even write it off since you're using it for work.

Lots of info on vintage Marshall's...
http://www.legendarytones.com/marshallshoppers2.html

[Soochdaddy]

I don't have a direct answer, but maybe a couple of leads...

On the corner of Sunset and Gardner is Amp Crazy Hollywood (I believe that's the name...)  You should just roll in there and check it out, ask the folks working there what you're asking here, and probably be able to plug into a "vintage" model and hear for yourself...

There's also the Amp Shop in Sherman Oaks on the corner of Ventura and Woodman...

And finally, you could check out Norm's Rare Guitars while you're in Sherman Oaks...

That way, you could plug into the suckers and see if they fit the tone you describe when cranked.  I think you might be hard pressed to find a "vintage" Marshall that is going to get you the modern heavy metal sound.  I don't know when JCM800s were introduced and therefore whether they are considered vintage pieces, so I could be wrong.

So the question you might end up asking yourself is which vintage marshall will give you the wow factor coupled with which pedal?

Again, I have no real answer for you, but some of these places might have some vintage specimens that you can check out first hand and decide for yourself.

And don't forget you'll need a vintage cab to go with that head to complete the package.  

On the other hand, since you say "in the hollywood game you only get paid when you sound like everybody else" you might really want to get a Mesa Boogie.  Right on Sunset, across the street from Amp Crazy.  This will not only get you the "recto" tone which you seek, but also produce the lame hollywood "ooh.. you've got a Mesa Double Recto" heavy metal wannabe effect.  This is not saying Mesas are not awesome amps, rather it will get the job done and have the "image" factor as well.

good luck.

[dain]

yea, its a tough decision, i had the same problem when looking for a humbuckered heavy metal guitar... the stuff i actually WANT can not produce the sounds i NEED.  here's my thinking:  if i'm going to spend money on a marshall i *want* a cool vintage plexi or bluesbreaker combo that will look rad with my 63 jag parked in front of it... but to get these boring ass sounds i need a 2003 marshall digital high gain guitar center special... 
i don't even like to have stuff like that in the studio!

i've heard that the 60s marshalls were bassman clones originally so i guess its not the thing?  but isn't there an early 70s model that could do heavy stuff?  that's what all the metal guys in the 80s were using right?  out of the jtm/jcm/superbass set is there one that would be a better bet for high gain stuff?    i guess the best question is what do all the heavy metal guys use?

thanks for the help guys!
d.
and i would love to go play the million vintage marshalls they have on sunset but i guarantee i'd walk out of one of those stores with a 1965 vox AC30 and STILL need a heavy metal amp...

[idiotbear]

I think the Jubilee is just an improved version of the same circuit.  Very very cool amp and great for metal tones (but not only metal tones)

Yeah, it is. It's basically an 800. I have one. It's the best amp in the whole wide world. Honest and true.

[dain]

jay thanks for the marshall link.  it basically was everything i was looking for...

d.

[Jay]

i've heard that the 60s marshalls were bassman clones originally so i guess its not the thing?  but isn't there an early 70s model that could do heavy stuff?  that's what all the metal guys in the 80s were using right?  out of the jtm/jcm/superbass set is there one that would be a better bet for high gain stuff?    i guess the best question is what do all the heavy metal guys use?

The 70's models can do metal stuff too, it just depends on what type of metal sounds your looking for.  For the most part, those amps are not really all that gainy in the preamp and players that used them used VERY over wound pickups and/or boosters/overdrives into the front to get the necessary amount of distortion.  There is also the EL34/6550 thing to consider.  EL34's produce more gain but many metal players liked the 6550 sound because they're heavier (bassier and more scooped through the middle) sounding and would have to use a pedal or preamp for overdrive.  Either way, here's a clip of a band that uses heavily overdriven 70's Marshall's to get their tones so you can see what they can do.  These guys have about the best metal sound I've ever heard.  Might not be what you're looking for though.

If it's really modern high gain stuff your after, try Amplitube.  Then you can spend the money burning a hole in your pocket on the cool vintage Marshall or Vox.  Seriously.  I'll even try and make some sound samples for you if you want.

Unfortunately Amp Crazy in Hollywood no longer has a retail store according to their website...  "Our Hollywood retail store has been closed, and we no longer stock or sell guitars, amps, pedals or accessories...except on an occasional basis."

I also don't recall seeing much in the way of amps at Norm's and the staff there avoided me like a leper that escaped the island so I haven't been to keen to visit again any time soon.

[JazzBlaster]

2 words "Silver Jubilee"

David

[mynameisjonas]

man... i once had a late 60s plexi superbass that was modded to have four channels, and i'm pretty sure that would have been the perfect amp for your needs. from the front, there was no indications of it being modded, and one of the channels was stock plexi sound (more like a superlead though). the other three channels were all high gain, ranging from JCM800-ish tones to the thickest, deepest super-gain sounds you could ever need. it could make my vintage hagström sound like a BC rich.

i know this doen't help you in any way... i just wanted to share

[Superfuzz]

My brother has a nice JCM900-model 2501 that's perfect for 80's heavy metal tones..it's not so famous but for me it's perfect for that kind of stuff so I suggest you  to give it a chance.
Usually you can find tons of "normal" JCM900s , they're a piece of crap, two channels, crappy reverb and diodes clipping..but if you're lucky to  find a 2501 I think it will be worth for you, they are built over the JCM800 skeleton , just added another gain stage and nothing more.
One channel, two preamp gains (one goes from 0 to 10 the other from 10 to 20), eq, two fotswitchable master volumes (very very nice feature) and presence.
plus: FX loop, direct out, and switchable to half power.
At lower gain level it perfectly nails the marshall sound and at "20" you get heavy metal.

[mynameisjonas]

My brother has a nice JCM900-model 2501 that's perfect for 80's heavy metal tones..it's not so famous but for me it's perfect for that kind of stuff so I suggest you  to give it a chance.
Usually you can find tons of "normal" JCM900s , they're a piece of crap, two channels, crappy reverb and diodes clipping..but if you're lucky to  find a 2501 I think it will be worth for you, they are built over the JCM800 skeleton , just added another gain stage and nothing more.
One channel, two preamp gains (one goes from 0 to 10 the other from 10 to 20), eq, two fotswitchable master volumes (very very nice feature) and presence.
plus: FX loop, direct out, and switchable to half power.
At lower gain level it perfectly nails the marshall sound and at "20" you get heavy metal.

is this the one labeled SL-X?

[Superfuzz]

is this the one labeled SL-X?

Nope, at least on my brother's
This are the only words
JCM900 Hi-gain master volume MkIII-model 2501 It comes also as 100W in both combo or head version..

[dain]

yea, i've already got amplitube and the line 6 gold edition plug for a wide range of truly cheesy
numetal sounds, i was just looking for an excuse to buy a plexi. 

its interesting though... i've never done research into marshalls, i had no idea
that the 60s ones were so "non heavymetal"  i still have yet to have a truly transendental amp
experience (plenty with guitars but none with the actual amp) so maybe i will spend some
time with the old ones.  although a selmer zodiac is calling me from across the internet...

d.

[RumorsOFsurF]

  Either way, here's a clip of a band that uses heavily overdriven 70's Marshall's to get their tones so you can see what they can do.  These guys have about the best metal sound I've ever heard. 

Those guys do have a great sound!  Nice and defined, not so muddy and bassy...