RATs for grownups

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marqueemoon
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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by marqueemoon » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:04 am

soggy mittens wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:43 pm
Reading through this thread again after so much time I can't help but cringe at my past opinions. yikes x)
Still love my Turbo Rat and find myself lowing the gain and preferring it that way now, with the gain up it just gets muddy and kills the repeats on pre-dirt delay. Also F the Timmy, can't believe I used to love that pedal so much. BB-Preamp into a Rat these days. B)
Same. I'm slightly cringing about the thread title, but I think it captures the dilemma well.

To my ears my Rats get too synthy and bland past about 3 o'clock on the gain, and lower than 9 on the gain and it's thin/shrill. Use too much filter to compensate and it sounds like your guitar has a cold. It would be great to find something that doesn't completely thin out at low gain setting and has more texture/complexity at the upper end of the dial.

I haven't given up on the Moar, but it just doesn't fit my playing these days. I'm using my Archer a lot and I love it, but sometimes it's just too tasteful for a proper freakout and my silicon fuzz gets completely washed out in a band mix, so here we are again. :freako:

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by ga20t » Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:31 am

Most of the RAT's shortcomings—weak or disappears at lowest gain, bland and overly smooth at higher gain—I find are remedied with real amplifier & speaker volume. IDK, I've really found the sweet spot for the lower gain texture I want with the unassuming BYOC mini. It just does a really good job at the 8-11 o'clock gain setting and the "filter' knob sounds good pretty much throughout its range. I mentioned before that the Gain Changer is capable of getting extremely close and is also capable of better (for me) higher and lower gain sounds, but the RAT just has that texture and sits in the mix the way it does.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by mcatano » Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:23 pm

I feel like the rat is just one of those things that people are always trying to "fix" and it honestly really doesn't need fixing. It does what it does, it's been doing it for decades, the new ones sound exactly the same as the old ones, if you don't like the way it sounds you probably just don't like rats (which is fine too! there are a lot of pedals out there!)

If you want a very polite sounding rat, try the 1981DRV. It has a little less of a high end boost so it feels a bit bassier and the clipping is a bit less harsh.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:38 am

mcatano wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:23 pm
I feel like the rat is just one of those things that people are always trying to "fix" and it honestly really doesn't need fixing. It does what it does, it's been doing it for decades, the new ones sound exactly the same as the old ones, if you don't like the way it sounds you probably just don't like rats (which is fine too! there are a lot of pedals out there!)
I don't disagree with your thinking, but specifically referring to RATs, I don't really agree. I've never played a real RAT, so I can't comment there, but there are a number of clones that sound different and unique enough to me that someone who likes the RAT family, but maybe doesnt specifically like the original RAT, could be happy with.

Three that immediately come to mind are the Jam Pedals Rattler, Arc Effects Soothsayer, and Magnetic Effects Lonely Robot. I haven't personally played a Rattler, but it sounds incredible and a bit smoother. I have had both the Soothsayer and the Lonely Robot. The Soothsayer sounded crisper to my ears than examples of classic RATs, and has several different clipping options too. The Lonely Robot (what I currently have) has an extremely versatile filter section too. It's a RAT with 6 knobs, where 3 or 4 of them are for filtering/EQ.
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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by jorri » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:32 pm

My BYOC mouse was always fine. In fact i think i preferred its lower gain more.

Is it not just an old style Rat with clipping options?

The latest incarnation i did has more unusual clipping, which i can't necessarily remember (LED+GERM, NONE, ASSYMetric GERM? and kept the 'soft clipping' mode as a separate switch.)
I also simply put a lower value cap in the tone control so that the settings with more rolloff were usable.
It also has a bassy setting (input caps, tone setting, probably a value of the resistors/caps people remove in the 'ruetz mod' but subtle instead of totally destroying the pedal i think i put bigger caps in.)

But honestly i don't feel like its essential at all, maybe a minor improvement, the gain increases and the treble decreases which is how its wired in a Rat usually...I think the 'soft clipping' options really do the lower gain sounds some look for. Otherwise i'm fine using one as Treble Boost--->Fuzz and the drive or distortion in between these. I also find sometimes another pedal can be better and that the 'rat flavour' is not always needed but I am allowed 3 dirt boxes on my board!

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by MrJagsquire » Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:04 am

I've been putting a small pedalboard together lately for a covers band I joined. I got one of the Mooer Black Secret pedals after watching a few videos comparing them to various original RATs. I haven't played through a real RAT for such a long time that I can't say if it really does sound close, but I like the sound of it in my set up (into a Marshall Mini Jubilee on the clean channel, but gain up high on the edge of breakup). Turned out I prefer the 'Turbo' mode too, but I keep the gain down to about 10 o'clock and filter at about mid way/slightly towards the smoother side.

I'm not so keen on the sound when it's stacked with my other pedals (Xotic SL drive, MXR Timmy, Xotic SP compressor or even stacked with the dirty channel of my Marshall), except for one Black Keys song (Lonely Boy) where the Timmy + Black secret seems to give that sort of 'low-fi' sound that suits the song.

I'll probably get a ban, but I haven't tried my Jaguar through it yet (Player series, so has the humbucker in the bridge). :whistle:

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by sunburster » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:17 am

I've had the Wrath V2 for awhile and I am quite satisfied with it for RAT sounds. It is basically an 80s Whiteface rat and Turbo rat in one (switchable), with a reutz mod sweep control as well (just keep the dial all the way to the left if you want the reutz mod 'off'). Top jacks and soft bypass switch. Takes up little space on my pedalboard.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by s_mcsleazy » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:58 pm

honestly. i love rats and often feel the people that like them dont really "get" them. IMHO, the best thing to is set them with the distortion about noon with your loudest guitar, set the volume at unity gain (or a bit higher) and the filter anywhere you feel sounds best.
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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by soggy mittens » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:58 pm

jorri wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:32 pm
My BYOC mouse was always fine. In fact i think i preferred its lower gain more.

Is it not just an old style Rat with clipping options?

The latest incarnation i did has more unusual clipping, which i can't necessarily remember (LED+GERM, NONE, ASSYMetric GERM? and kept the 'soft clipping' mode as a separate switch.)
I also simply put a lower value cap in the tone control so that the settings with more rolloff were usable.
It also has a bassy setting (input caps, tone setting, probably a value of the resistors/caps people remove in the 'ruetz mod' but subtle instead of totally destroying the pedal i think i put bigger caps in.)

But honestly i don't feel like its essential at all, maybe a minor improvement, the gain increases and the treble decreases which is how its wired in a Rat usually...I think the 'soft clipping' options really do the lower gain sounds some look for. Otherwise i'm fine using one as Treble Boost--->Fuzz and the drive or distortion in between these. I also find sometimes another pedal can be better and that the 'rat flavour' is not always needed but I am allowed 3 dirt boxes on my board!
This is a great post that is really helpful. It has made me understand a problem I've been having, a conflict between two songs as far as gain level and amount of treble. So the trick will be to adjust the gain between the two songs and I will get what I need. One song needs more treble to cut through for delay repeats so I can make the gain pot lower, and the other song can have higher gain so when I slide my hand down the strings during a lead part it won't cut through like an ice pick (like it has been since I lowered the gain for the other song). Can't wait to try this at next jamz. B)
If OSG has tort me anything...

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by jorri » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:21 am

soggy mittens wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:58 pm
jorri wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:32 pm
My BYOC mouse was always fine. In fact i think i preferred its lower gain more.

Is it not just an old style Rat with clipping options?

The latest incarnation i did has more unusual clipping, which i can't necessarily remember (LED+GERM, NONE, ASSYMetric GERM? and kept the 'soft clipping' mode as a separate switch.)
I also simply put a lower value cap in the tone control so that the settings with more rolloff were usable.
It also has a bassy setting (input caps, tone setting, probably a value of the resistors/caps people remove in the 'ruetz mod' but subtle instead of totally destroying the pedal i think i put bigger caps in.)

But honestly i don't feel like its essential at all, maybe a minor improvement, the gain increases and the treble decreases which is how its wired in a Rat usually...I think the 'soft clipping' options really do the lower gain sounds some look for. Otherwise i'm fine using one as Treble Boost--->Fuzz and the drive or distortion in between these. I also find sometimes another pedal can be better and that the 'rat flavour' is not always needed but I am allowed 3 dirt boxes on my board!
This is a great post that is really helpful. It has made me understand a problem I've been having, a conflict between two songs as far as gain level and amount of treble. So the trick will be to adjust the gain between the two songs and I will get what I need. One song needs more treble to cut through for delay repeats so I can make the gain pot lower, and the other song can have higher gain so when I slide my hand down the strings during a lead part it won't cut through like an ice pick (like it has been since I lowered the gain for the other song). Can't wait to try this at next jamz. B)
Yes, see if its enough like that. Things get quite squishy around 3o'clock but that really is where it feels like the pedal is fed some bass. 9 o clock is more like "ice pick setting" i use for albini or no wave tones. This can be dialed into something normal with filter knob however.
I say i vary between 3oclock and full gain, tone much the same and my extra options i mainly change hard/soft clip the rest are much of a muchness playing live. 'normal distortion' setting may just be both knobs @12oclock, maybe filter up to 10oclock (on pedals where anticlockwise=more treble)
Also, i stack it. drive before (combined is middy/muddy/fat). Fuzz after (it gives fuzzfacey pedal that twang or icepick somehow). The RAT always stacks like it gives you a new sound different to the individual pedals, which is quite unique to it.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Jaguar018 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:29 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:38 am
I don't disagree with your thinking, but specifically referring to RATs, I don't really agree. I've never played a real RAT, so I can't comment there, but there are a number of clones that sound different and unique enough to me that someone who likes the RAT family, but maybe doesnt specifically like the original RAT, could be happy with.
Dude. Just go get a true Rat pedal. Why are you avoiding them? I should just loan you one.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:44 am

I really like Rats.
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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:57 am

Jaguar018 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:29 am
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:38 am
I don't disagree with your thinking, but specifically referring to RATs, I don't really agree. I've never played a real RAT, so I can't comment there, but there are a number of clones that sound different and unique enough to me that someone who likes the RAT family, but maybe doesnt specifically like the original RAT, could be happy with.
Dude. Just go get a true Rat pedal. Why are you avoiding them? I should just loan you one.
Nah. I don't avoid anything, I just prefer clones with a more variable circuit.
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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Gavanti » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:52 am

I've had a few over time (Mooer, Timbo clone, Arc effects), and they always seem to find a place on my board as the "anytime" heavy dirt option alongside more particular fuzz flavors. My favorite so far is an early 90s Turbo RAT. There's something about the way the Turbo opens up the core RAT sound that works really well in front of my amp. It's off the board at the moment for an EQD Life V2 (which also sounds great) because I like having the boost option in front of other pedals and the EQD's board friendly height, but I expect the Turbo may be back soon.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:11 pm

Gavanti wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:52 am
I've had a few over time (Mooer, Timbo clone, Arc effects), and they always seem to find a place on my board as the "anytime" heavy dirt option alongside more particular fuzz flavors. My favorite so far is an early 90s Turbo RAT. There's something about the way the Turbo opens up the core RAT sound that works really well in front of my amp. It's off the board at the moment for an EQD Life V2 (which also sounds great) because I like having the boost option in front of other pedals and the EQD's board friendly height, but I expect the Turbo may be back soon.
Is the EQD Life basically a RAT? EQD make great stuff, but frequently don't describe things as the circuits that they're based off of.
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