RATs for grownups

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Gavanti
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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Gavanti » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:35 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:11 pm
Gavanti wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:52 am
I've had a few over time (Mooer, Timbo clone, Arc effects), and they always seem to find a place on my board as the "anytime" heavy dirt option alongside more particular fuzz flavors. My favorite so far is an early 90s Turbo RAT. There's something about the way the Turbo opens up the core RAT sound that works really well in front of my amp. It's off the board at the moment for an EQD Life V2 (which also sounds great) because I like having the boost option in front of other pedals and the EQD's board friendly height, but I expect the Turbo may be back soon.
Is the EQD Life basically a RAT? EQD make great stuff, but frequently don't describe things as the circuits that they're based off of.
Yes. It's a LM308 RAT with a few different clipping options sandwiched between the octave and boost circuits...sort of takes that classic RAT flexibility and adds a little more functionality. It's a pretty fun pedal overall if spendy. I'd probably ditch it if I lend up with the space on my board to put the Turbo back in with a separate boost pedal, but the EQD definitely sounded right at band practice last weekend.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by jorri » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:51 pm

They say its Shin ei inspired octave fuzz into rodent LM308. Thats pretty clear.

I dont own any EQD. Their dirt is cool. But then i find they made an even cooler dirt that is DISCONTINUED like this. Like cloven hoof or grey channel or black ash. It sort of puts me into finding what its a clone of, and who makes something similar.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:40 am

Interesting. Thanks for the information guys. All I know is that, it sounds damn good. I'd love to try one one of these days...
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Nick and the Noise
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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Nick and the Noise » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:16 am

I have a whiteface reissue RAT but I don't really like it. It drops too much bass and I hate the brick enclosure. But I can't part with it either because whitefaces are sort-of limited edition and it's upgraded with a LED, a Boss power connector and a better stomp button. At least I like it better on synths actually. Perhaps I should rehouse it.

I also tried a EHX Flatiron - I like it better but it strays a bit too far from the RAT formula. It leaves the bass intact, but it's also fuzzier and less smooth. That smoothness, which goes into whitenoise when maxed, is something I do like hearing in the RAT.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by redchapterjubilee » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:27 am

I have this amazing Rat clone that forum member daydreamdelay built for himself and then decided he didn't need it. $100 probably close to 10 years ago. That pedal has been a revelation to me and is one of the two pedals that I would say are the keys to how I make my sound. So much so that I've had the pedal cloned so I can have two. Some day when I get the nerve and the time I will attempt to build them for friends. What is so special about this pedal? I thought maybe it had been modded with different clipping or such but the guy who cloned it for me said really the only key differences were in different parts values chosen specifically to widen the range of gain, the amount of volume, and less low end attenuation. I tend to use it with a lot of volume (2 o'clock) and less gain (10-11 o'clock) as more of a overdrive/distortion hybrid. When overdubbing "lead" type parts I tend to turn the gain up to 1 or 2 o'clock and find that I get an almost fuzz type tone and sustain without the drawbacks of most fuzz pedals.

I have attempted to find an off the shelf Rat that has a similar vibe as the Upstate Analog Rat. Regular Rats both new and vintage and the tiny Mooer-style clones seem to pull out too much more low end for my tastes. Stomp Under Foot's Skinner Box is close but doesn't have the same amount of volume on tap. VFE Alpha Dog is somewhat similar but I found it very finicky to dial it right and, weirdly, the older 2-in-1 version in the Killer Rabbit sounded better to me than the stand-alone Alpha Dog. Walrus Iron Horse is supposedly a Rat killer but the one I used was really compressed and congested. I did not like it at all. Oddly, I can cop 90% of the tone with an SS/BS Mini and I don't think it's Rat-like on the inside at all. I'd love to try the Fat Rat, Turbo Rat, the 1981 pedal everyone raves about, a flatiron, an ARC Woodcutter, etc. but considering I've already got the perfect pedal, a clone of that pedal and the circuit sketch in case i ever want to build another or have someone build me one I'm less inclined to chase after an over-the-counter sound-alike.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by Jaguar018 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:21 am

redchapterjubilee wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:27 am
I have this amazing Rat clone that forum member daydreamdelay built for himself and then decided he didn't need it. $100 probably close to 10 years ago. That pedal has been a revelation to me and is one of the two pedals that I would say are the keys to how I make my sound. So much so that I've had the pedal cloned so I can have two.
I have an old daydreamdelay Rat clone too.
Image
redchapterjubilee wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:27 am
I'd love to try the Fat Rat, Turbo Rat, the 1981 pedal everyone raves about, a flatiron, an ARC Woodcutter, etc. but considering I've already got the perfect pedal, a clone of that pedal and the circuit sketch in case i ever want to build another or have someone build me one I'm less inclined to chase after an over-the-counter sound-alike.
I have had a Fat Rat, and currently have a Turbo Rat. Both great pedals. Kind of want to go back to the WF Rat I had. My problem is that I like them all, so I like to change them around like cool pairs of sneakers.

I feel the same way about Klons as I do Rats: TRY THE ORIGINAL FIRST before you go off to clone land. Now obviously with Klons most of us can't drop the $$$ required for that. I was lucky to get a relative deal on a silver Klon a while ago, and I later sold it on. I now have a KTR. Most Rats don't cost an arm and a leg, so it's not like it's that hard to do. I still feel like standard Rats don't really need much modding, and getting Rat combo pedals isn't as fun as stacking stuff externally. I can stack like seven or eight different dirt pedals with my Rats. :ph34r:

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by tdbajus » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:34 pm

I'm kinda shocked the Fat Rat isn't getting more love. It's a huge improvement, but I do have a stash of LM308 chips. 18V operation is pretty cool, and if you dig the Rat, it can sound just like regular if you like.

I would absolutely love someone to make a rat that omits the shitty lowpass filter, which mars the Fat Rat as well. Ear piercingly bright, until you turn the filter down a bit, at which point it's way too dark.

I'm amazed that no one has made an LM308 pedal with just a high end roll-off mod. I tried to breadboard one out, but possibly because I have only the vaguest idea on how to get it to work and lack a proper work area that wouldn't be inconsiderate to either my spacemates or my wife.

Is there a way to change the slope of the filter? If it's 24db an octave, I'd be interested in something that was like 6db an octave. Maybe switchable with a 12. There's probably a way to fiddle with the RC network of the pedal, my attempts to do so failed. But my BYOC Rat clone was built more than a decade ago and I have learned some things.

I tried a couple of times to find people to meet up with and build pedals together, but could never get anything going.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by tdbajus » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:43 pm

This is interesting:

https://www.electrosmash.com/proco-rat
High Pass Filter.

There are two parallel RC networks formed by R4C5 and R5C6 from the (-) input to ground. They are an active high pass filter, placing two poles and attenuating frequencies below the cut-off frequencies:

Harmonics below 1.5KHz will have an attenuation 20dB/dec and lower harmonics below 60Hz will be severely muted at 40dB/dec. This filtering provoke that bass notes will be attenuated before the clipping action, making the low end less clipped and creating a frequency selective distortion.
HOLY SHIT 40db/oct?

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by tdbajus » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:48 pm

Though reading this

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/fi ... ter_2.html


doesn't it seem like it should be 20dB/octave?




I'd love it if someone who knew what they were talking about could clear this up.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by mcatano » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:29 am

tdbajus wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:34 pm
I'm amazed that no one has made an LM308 pedal with just a high end roll-off mod.
I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying - the rat filter section is a low pass filter, which provides high end roll-off. A lot of it!

That section is made up of a pot, a resistor, and a capacitor; you can change the response of that part of the circuit by swapping out components for different values. Because there's a second resistor in the filter circuit there's always *some* amount of filtering happening, even when the pot is wide open. If you search for 'low pass filter calculator" you can plug in different values and see what happens.

One common beef with Rats is that the controls are finicky, which I guess is true? There's a HUGE sweep of saturation/gain/distortion and low pass filtering available which means fine adjustments are difficult. I don't think they're really tone seeker pedals, they're more like plug it in, "this sounds sick" and never touch it again.

That said, for me, again, rats are just kind of a thing unto themselves and looking to fix them kind of makes them not as much fun as rats. The weird boxes, the dumb power cords, etc, etc. They are the Pas easter eggs of guitar pedals.

Also, as far as the DRV1981 goes—I have a clone and I found it really underwhelming. I guess it qualifies as a 'rat for grown ups' if you are a particularly polite and predictable grown up. It feels like it shaves all of the wild edges off the pedal, but if you're looking for less treble, more balanced frequency response, and a 'smoother' sounding gain it might be the thing for you. If you're handy with a soldering iron there are lots of clone PCBs available. The fat rat at 18v with a clean boost in front of it will probably get you to the same place.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by mcatano » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:29 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:44 am
I really like Rats.
QFT as they say

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by redchapterjubilee » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:36 am

Jaguar018 wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:21 am
I have an old daydreamdelay Rat clone too.
Let me know if'n you ever want to part with it.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by panoramic » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:39 am

you know rat pedals do have knobs you can adjust these values on pretty easily and they even work well on adult pedalboards.
i used to be cool

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by tdbajus » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:38 am

mcatano wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:29 am
tdbajus wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:34 pm
I'm amazed that no one has made an LM308 pedal with just a high end roll-off mod.
I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying - the rat filter section is a low pass filter, which provides high end roll-off. A lot of it!
Sorry for being unclear. Like I said above, the slope on the low pass filter is just brutal: it's always too bright until it's too dark.

Am I crazy in thinking that the Rat is the only distortion pedal that has this low pass filter? Big Muffs have their weird thing, but other than a few exceptions, don't most pedals just have a high end rolloff at a fixed frequency? Like this?

Image

mcatano wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:29 am

That section is made up of a pot, a resistor, and a capacitor;
That's what I was referring to when I talked about "rc networks"

mcatano wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:29 am

you can change the response of that part of the circuit by swapping out components for different values.
Image

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by mcatano » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:09 pm

Ok cool

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