RATs for grownups

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tdbajus
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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by tdbajus » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:20 pm

It's a joke.

But thank you for telling me that if I change the circuit, the circuit will be changed. LOLZ.

C'mon.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by marqueemoon » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:37 am

Well, a Chicago Stompworks clone sans ugly “Mr. Vermin” graphics popped up used so I grabbed it.

I think y’all have made good points that changing the circuit too much can kill what’s good about it, and my application is a little different now than it was when I first posted. This will be for gainier sounds. I’ve been loving my Crucible Fuzz for recording but it completely vanishes in a band situation. I don’t think that will be an issue with this.

Also on a practical note I suspect the days of masked/socially distanced band practice might be numbered, so a new toy might be a good distraction.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by panoramic » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:45 pm

marqueemoon wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:37 am
Well, a Chicago Stompworks clone sans ugly “Mr. Vermin” graphics popped up used so I grabbed it.

I think y’all have made good points that changing the circuit too much can kill what’s good about it, and my application is a little different now than it was when I first posted. This will be for gainier sounds. I’ve been loving my Crucible Fuzz for recording but it completely vanishes in a band situation. I don’t think that will be an issue with this.

Also on a practical note I suspect the days of masked/socially distanced band practice might be numbered, so a new toy might be a good distraction.
the next shutdown looms
i used to be cool

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by jorri » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:04 pm

tdbajus wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:43 pm
This is interesting:

https://www.electrosmash.com/proco-rat
High Pass Filter.

There are two parallel RC networks formed by R4C5 and R5C6 from the (-) input to ground. They are an active high pass filter, placing two poles and attenuating frequencies below the cut-off frequencies:

Harmonics below 1.5KHz will have an attenuation 20dB/dec and lower harmonics below 60Hz will be severely muted at 40dB/dec. This filtering provoke that bass notes will be attenuated before the clipping action, making the low end less clipped and creating a frequency selective distortion.
HOLY SHIT 40db/oct?
Thats where i got info for changing these in my clone.

The ruetz mod simply discards one.
Much like a tone pot you can however tune the resistance affecting gain or tune the capacitance affecting frequency.
40db, not sure id unbelievable or not, its below guitar frequencies. It does say "dec" so i think that means an order of magnitude (10*) not octave (2*).

Also has information on the components causing the high end rolloff effect i mentioned when gain is dimed. This possibly could be tuned? Also has info on why lm308 may be favoured and why it may be due to not changing one of the caps to suit particular chips which would have desirable effects too.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by marqueemoon » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:15 pm

panoramic wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:45 pm
marqueemoon wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:37 am
Well, a Chicago Stompworks clone sans ugly “Mr. Vermin” graphics popped up used so I grabbed it.

I think y’all have made good points that changing the circuit too much can kill what’s good about it, and my application is a little different now than it was when I first posted. This will be for gainier sounds. I’ve been loving my Crucible Fuzz for recording but it completely vanishes in a band situation. I don’t think that will be an issue with this.

Also on a practical note I suspect the days of masked/socially distanced band practice might be numbered, so a new toy might be a good distraction.
the next shutdown looms
I think you’re right. :(

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by panoramic » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:56 am

get your recording gear sorted out now before the next shutdown transpires.
i used to be cool

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by marqueemoon » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:54 am

panoramic wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:56 am
get your recording gear sorted out now before the next shutdown transpires.
Did it over the summer. It’s been a lifesaver.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by stevejamsecono » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:27 am

marqueemoon wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:37 am
Well, a Chicago Stompworks clone sans ugly “Mr. Vermin” graphics popped up used so I grabbed it.

I think y’all have made good points that changing the circuit too much can kill what’s good about it, and my application is a little different now than it was when I first posted. This will be for gainier sounds. I’ve been loving my Crucible Fuzz for recording but it completely vanishes in a band situation. I don’t think that will be an issue with this.

Also on a practical note I suspect the days of masked/socially distanced band practice might be numbered, so a new toy might be a good distraction.
I have one of those well and I've really come to like it quite a bit. Verily different beast from my old mid-200s Rat 2 which I hated and couldn't get rid of fast enough.

I use mine on fairly moderate settings (V -3 o clock , F - 11 o clock, D - 11 o clock) and it sounds great being pushed by my compressor into my AC15. I'm curious how it would compare to a "Real one" because I've found the filter sweep to be way less dramatic than the one on my Rat 2 was, but as a result it seems much more usable.
And you find out life isn't like that
It's so hard to understand
Why the world is your oyster but your future's a clam

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by marqueemoon » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:50 pm

stevejamsecono wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:27 am
marqueemoon wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:37 am
Well, a Chicago Stompworks clone sans ugly “Mr. Vermin” graphics popped up used so I grabbed it.

I think y’all have made good points that changing the circuit too much can kill what’s good about it, and my application is a little different now than it was when I first posted. This will be for gainier sounds. I’ve been loving my Crucible Fuzz for recording but it completely vanishes in a band situation. I don’t think that will be an issue with this.

Also on a practical note I suspect the days of masked/socially distanced band practice might be numbered, so a new toy might be a good distraction.
I have one of those well and I've really come to like it quite a bit. Verily different beast from my old mid-200s Rat 2 which I hated and couldn't get rid of fast enough.

I use mine on fairly moderate settings (V -3 o clock , F - 11 o clock, D - 11 o clock) and it sounds great being pushed by my compressor into my AC15. I'm curious how it would compare to a "Real one" because I've found the filter sweep to be way less dramatic than the one on my Rat 2 was, but as a result it seems much more usable.
Yeah, it was your endorsement that sealed the deal for me.

I have an 80’s small box and late 90’s big box reissue. They’re pretty different. The big box is darker/warmer, and the small box can get super jagged sounding (in a good way). Both require quite a bit of filter to tame the shrillness and have a really narrow sweet spot with the filter, so a more subtle sweep sounds really promising.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by tdbajus » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:28 pm

marqueemoon wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:54 am
panoramic wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:56 am
get your recording gear sorted out now before the next shutdown transpires.
Did it over the summer. It’s been a lifesaver.
+1. My rehearsal space is working pretty well as a recording studio, since no one is ever a round. I tell you though, I envy that solo artist mentality. I ain't got it; making music for me is about interacting with other people, which seems to be more and more of a rarity these days. I'm sort of working on a thought experiment: "What would it be like if Bill Callahan played guitar like Marc Ribot?" to keep moving forward.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by tdbajus » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:46 pm

jorri wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:04 pm
tdbajus wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:43 pm
This is interesting:

https://www.electrosmash.com/proco-rat
Thats where i got info for changing these in my clone.

The ruetz mod simply discards one.
Much like a tone pot you can however tune the resistance affecting gain or tune the capacitance affecting frequency.
40db, not sure id unbelievable or not, its below guitar frequencies. It does say "dec" so i think that means an order of magnitude (10*) not octave (2*).
Ah. Thanks.

jorri wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:04 pm
Also has information on the components causing the high end rolloff effect i mentioned when gain is dimed. This possibly could be tuned? Also has info on why lm308 may be favoured and why it may be due to not changing one of the caps to suit particular chips which would have desirable effects too.
Can you dumb this down a little bit for me? Would I put a resistor between C8 and ground to lessen the slope?

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by marqueemoon » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:41 pm

tdbajus wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:28 pm
marqueemoon wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:54 am
panoramic wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:56 am
get your recording gear sorted out now before the next shutdown transpires.
Did it over the summer. It’s been a lifesaver.
+1. My rehearsal space is working pretty well as a recording studio, since no one is ever a round. I tell you though, I envy that solo artist mentality. I ain't got it; making music for me is about interacting with other people, which seems to be more and more of a rarity these days. I'm sort of working on a thought experiment: "What would it be like if Bill Callahan played guitar like Marc Ribot?" to keep moving forward.
I have reluctantly been getting back into “solo” headspace.

It remains to be seen if a Rat has any place there.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by budda12ax7 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:04 pm

The FAT RAT and the Keleey Mod Rat....

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by marqueemoon » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:29 pm

stevejamsecono wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:27 am
I have one of those well and I've really come to like it quite a bit. Verily different beast from my old mid-200s Rat 2 which I hated and couldn't get rid of fast enough.

I use mine on fairly moderate settings (V -3 o clock , F - 11 o clock, D - 11 o clock) and it sounds great being pushed by my compressor into my AC15. I'm curious how it would compare to a "Real one" because I've found the filter sweep to be way less dramatic than the one on my Rat 2 was, but as a result it seems much more usable.
So this arrived on Saturday and I got to mess with it for a bit. Really like it so far. I think it's partially that I've been messing with fuzz and have learned to play a little differently. Still figuring it out, but I'm better at playing with a dirtier sound than I used to be.

It's also non-hashy with a JM, and switching is silent which is a big plus in my book.

Aaaaaand as predicted lockdown pt. II goes into effect tonight, so band practice is off the table for at least a month. I guess for the short term I'l be putting down some parts on demos with it.

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Re: RATs for grownups

Post by stevejamsecono » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:55 pm

marqueemoon wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:50 pm

Yeah, it was your endorsement that sealed the deal for me.

I have an 80’s small box and late 90’s big box reissue. They’re pretty different. The big box is darker/warmer, and the small box can get super jagged sounding (in a good way). Both require quite a bit of filter to tame the shrillness and have a really narrow sweet spot with the filter, so a more subtle sweep sounds really promising.
I'm honored! I honestly forget how I first heard of them but I'm glad to spread the word.
marqueemoon wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:29 pm
So this arrived on Saturday and I got to mess with it for a bit. Really like it so far. I think it's partially that I've been messing with fuzz and have learned to play a little differently. Still figuring it out, but I'm better at playing with a dirtier sound than I used to be.

It's also non-hashy with a JM, and switching is silent which is a big plus in my book.

Aaaaaand as predicted lockdown pt. II goes into effect tonight, so band practice is off the table for at least a month. I guess for the short term I'l be putting down some parts on demos with it.
Fantastic. And yeah, I've noticed the Rat functions best (at least in my setup) as the end of the line, so-to-speak, so I've been trying to tailor my gain-staging accordingly. It makes for a great fuzzy sound without all the stuff I typically don't care for in fuzzes.
And you find out life isn't like that
It's so hard to understand
Why the world is your oyster but your future's a clam

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