Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

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RumorsOFsurF
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Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by RumorsOFsurF » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:03 pm

I'm a volume pedal noob. I want a volume pedal to do swells and all that fun stuff, but I don't want it to affect my sound when it's wide open. Everything I've read suggest that a volume pedal in your chain will affect your sound regardless of the style of pedal. If I'm looking for full brightness and unaffected sound, what should I look for?

Also, where in the chain should it be?


My current small setup is Boss Tuner>Fulltone OCD>MXR Carbon Copy>EHX LPB>Hot Rod Deluxe
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marqueemoon
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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by marqueemoon » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:40 pm

The safest (and most expensive) option for avoiding tone suck is an active (buffered) volume pedal.

I’ve found that as long as it’s after a buffered pedal my old school Ernie Ball passive is fine though.

Your Boss tuner is buffered AND should have a second output that is always on. This opens up the possibility of a passive as well as leaving the tuner always on and using the VP for tuning mute (as long as it’s before the VP of course).

Placement-wise with your setup I would put it between the OCD and the delay.

If you tend to ride the volume control on your guitar you could try placing it before the OCD. You get more tonal shadings with this placement. I personally like after drive. Swells are more synth-like that way.

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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:15 am

I agree with marqueemoon about the buffering. With a buffer you shouldn't have any tone sucking from a volume pedal. I had an Ernie Ball VP Jr for years, then I had a Hilton, and now currently have a Lehle volume pedal. I've never had an issue with any of them, though they did all feel a little differently with their sweep both physically, and in the way the human ear perceives volume. Like the difference between an audio/logarithmic pot and a linear pot.

As for placement, I always have mine after my gain, so lowering the volume doesn't lower the gain amount as well. Here's a rough layout of my chain: [guitar] > tuner > compressor > phaser > treble booster > gain pedals (x4) > tremolo > volume > Y splitter > delay > reverb > looper > [amp]. This way, my gain isn't affected by the volume, and the volume pedal can do swells with both amps (as I usually run a wet-dry rig, with the dry amp getting signal straight from the Y splitter).

I would say to try a few pedals out. Since you've already got a buffer in your tuner (assuming the buffer is always on), you shouldn't have to worry about active vs passive volume pedal. If there's an issue, you could still add an external buffer later too. Just find one that feels good to you and go from there.
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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by s_mcsleazy » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:39 pm

im going to disagree with you all.

i've owned a fair amount of volume pedals over the years and my favorite one has been one that only cost me £13...... and it's passive. granted, given where i leave it in the chain. it's probably where it works best. in my chain, it's before the modulation but after the dirt. that way, volume swells have more impact. plus that's one of the few places that will minimize the tone suck one would get from a passive volume pedal.

p.s. my volume pedal is a bespeco vm-12
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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by jorri » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:24 pm

Fuzzes or drives that change with buffers: put it after.
delays: usually before so you swell into it rather than cut the tail.
Other drives??: you CAN use it as a gain control if before which is pretty useful (Jonny Greenwood does it), if you don't mind what it does to the tone. (Buffers can improve some, the only way is to try it with those drive pedals. e.g. My rat, which is a pedal that doesn't contain a buffering stage changes with a buffer. However, that's either worse or better. It gets tighter especially for high gain sounds but i personally don't want that i want it scratchy and raw...)
Compressors: after...well for the reason

That's about it. Can't think of it affecting modulation much. Ernie Ball MVP suits me fine. Its buffer improves my sound for sure. Most buffers don't but this just sounds like i actually bought a decent cable and doesn't destroy too much. A bit more prescence, sure, but only like I'd been playing with my volume knob down then suddenly turned it up, NOT like a boss pedal or various others which people call 'tone suck'.
I have to place it after my weird fuzzes, but that means it can come last in the chain before the amp. Then in my fx loop are delays/reverb/loopers.
Unfortunately it means its after a delay pedal but can't be perfect as i like that before drive.
Also: free boost on it actually sounds good too! Don't actually use it that much as it doesn't have a switch. Its also got a minimum volume control- you can set that to swell between normal and boosted but nah I wanted a swell pedal. Did use it once but now isn't really that necessary. Maybe sometimes when recording.
My guitar actually doesn't have a volume knob, i removed it, so its pretty useful.

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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by RumorsOFsurF » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:54 pm

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm more confused than before haha. I'll see what I can find and play with board placement.
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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by fuzzjunkie » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:11 am

RumorsOFsurF wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:03 pm
I'm a volume pedal noob. I want a volume pedal to do swells and all that fun stuff, but I don't want it to affect my sound when it's wide open. Everything I've read suggest that a volume pedal in your chain will affect your sound regardless of the style of pedal. If I'm looking for full brightness and unaffected sound, what should I look for?

Also, where in the chain should it be?


My current small setup is Boss Tuner>Fulltone OCD>MXR Carbon Copy>EHX LPB>Hot Rod Deluxe
I have and use an unbuffered Ernie Ball. I do have several buffered pedals in my chain though.

I know that there is a lot of hand wringing about “LOSE OF TOnEZ” but I always look at it this way when I add a pedal to my chain >>> I like this pedal, this is my tone now. You can always adjust other things to compensate.

A volume pedal isn’t like some “True Bypass Transparent Overdrive You Won’t Even Know Its On Until You Turn It Off” pedal, because it’s always on. Will your signal sound different if your chain is guitar/volume/amp vs guitar/amp? Probably. But guess what? That’s your tone now! It’s always on, that means its not affecting your tone, that is your tone. Need it brighter? Fix it at the amp. Adjust the bass and treble controls on your amp. That’s why they are there!

As for position. Always after dirt for me. I can adjust my gain level going into those from my handy dandy guitar volume knob! Big swells into delay or reverb? Volume pedal. Cut the signal going to the amp? Volume pedal. Big wash of fuzz slowly gaining in volume? Volume pedal. (And some judicious Tremolo strumming)

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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by jorri » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:50 pm

RumorsOFsurF wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:54 pm
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm more confused than before haha. I'll see what I can find and play with board placement.
In other words to my waffling: it really goes anywhere, based on what sound best!
Something like before drives it of course acts more like a gain knob.
Or reverbs, if it is after it cuts the tail.
Just follow the signal chain.

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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by invisible man » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:10 pm

Dan and Mick to the rescue
https://youtu.be/TF-W7JIaPHE
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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by kgbAttack » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:34 pm

I have an old Ernie Ball 6166 mono - I put it after my gain pedals, and before modulation/delay/reverb. I have never had any complaints - the pedal is heavy af but very sturdy. I also use the tuner output so I have one item less in my chain. I've been thinking about going volume-pedal-less for a while, but it's too practical and I sometimes try to make soundscapes/noise so it is handy to tame those sounds, and effectively it's become part of my playing style.

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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by invisible man » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:33 am

High vs low impedance? Especially after drives, before delays and verbs? Any mini volume pedals good in this position?
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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by pj » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:30 am

I just got a little Morley volume pedal for my upstairs set up. I put the volume after compression and dirt and before reverb and delay.

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Re: Volume Pedals--What to look for and how to set up

Post by invisible man » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:43 am

pj wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:30 am
I just got a little Morley volume pedal for my upstairs set up. I put the volume after compression and dirt and before reverb and delay.
I just got a Morley 20/20 Volume Plus, put it in the same position. It’s a great size, fits on bottom row of my Pedal Train Classic 2, with room enough for standard size pedals on the top row. I have a TC Electronics Hall Of Fame 2 in that spot above it, so if I want I can hang my foot off the end of the volume pedal and at maximum volume I can depress the Hall OF Fame 2’s mash expression switch in the same motion.
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