Midi Sync Delay

[JONFROMJERSEY]

I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask...

I have a digital DAW machine, a Yamaha AW1600. A little old but it´s what I know and have. I run a Midi clock out from that to an Alesis Sr18 Drum machine. From the Thru out of the drum machine I run into the Midi in of my Source Audio Collider which is a delay pedal with Midi sync capabilities. From there I go out to a looper, also with Midi, but that doesn´t matter here.

DAW -> Drum Machine Thru -> Collider

So anyway, let´s say I set the tempo at 150 BPM om the DAW. It will sync up fine with the drum machine. The tempos lock up great. Quarter notes, like you would expect. AND, via Midi Thru, the tempo on the delay pedal is synced up (SORT OF.) NOT QUARTER NOTES. It is in sync, but a very rapid tempo. I have set up the Collider to sync to quarter notes, and I know it works, BECAUSE... when I run just the drum machine, it syncs up with the delay as expected, in quarter notes. The rate only changes when the clock source is the DAW running THRU the drum machine. The drum machine clock itself generates a quarter note sync, like I want.

I have all the settings correct, the midi channels are set to OMNI which is correct.

Sync OK with the clock just from drum machine, sync ok but too rapid when clock source is DAW thru drum machine.

Any ideas???

[somanytoys]

I don’t know a lot about it all to get into the weeds, but for just a practical fix for that specific setup, can you change the input/clock setting on the Collider to sync to whole notes (or whatever is appropriate for the speed) instead of quarter notes?

Quick & dirty fix, but it could work unless/until someone has a better idea.

(This is assuming your cant change the output of the drum machine)

[JONFROMJERSEY]

I can´t change the output of the drum machine, and I will try what you said. Thanks!

[somanytoys]

I kind of figured that since the drum machine is just passing a thru signal. So this way is all I could think of.

You’re welcome, I hope it works. Let me know if it does, it may help me out someday!

[JONFROMJERSEY]

No luck...

There is nowhere in the Collider software, an app called Neuro, to specify whole notes, quarter notes, etc... One can just turn on or off midi sync.

It seems like the drum machine interferes with the midi clock when it operates with Midi Thru. Works fine straight from the from the DAW. Works fine straight from the drum machine. But when I send the midi clock THRU the drum machine, no good.

[somanytoys]

Damn, that sucks. I don’t understand why the drum machine is having an affect on a thru signal, but I’m not that great at midi.

The only other things I could think of is if the Collider has a thru option, and you could do the drums last in the midi chain instead, since that seems to be the one affecting the clock signal.

Or if there was a way to send 2 separate (unmolested) midi signals & cables from the DAW to each one of them.

[JONFROMJERSEY]

The Collider does have a midi out, which I send to a looper, which also has a midi out, which could potentially go to the drum machine, except that the cables won't fit in my pedalboard.

I currently use a Midi Thru thing to separate the midi from the Daw to the drum machine and a synth. One in and two out. I guess I need to buy a Midi thru Quadra which splits from one to four...

[somanytoys]

That sucks. It doesn’t seem like that should be happening, but maybe the drum machine is somehow changing the thru signal?

I use midi from my Beat Buddy to my Infinity Looper, which controls the clock/tempo and start/stop of the looper that I record bass lines to, and play guitar with it. I also use it to control the pedals in my pedalboards’ chains, and an SPX 90, but they’re all pretty basic, simple applications.

Wish I could give you a better solution, but I’m just spitballing...

[fuzzjunkie]

I don’t know what “Omni” is, but I think you want the drum machine set to “midi-thru,” that’s how it worked in the old days. Midi-send from DAW to drum machine, them midi-thru from drum machine to delay.

What (I guess) is happening is the drum machine gets a quarter note tempo and is sending a quarter note tempo to the delay, which is also set to quarter notes, so you get sixteenths as a result. You want the Collider to respond to what the DAW is sending, so midi-thru.

-I didn’t read the whole thread before posting. So you are using midi-thru? If not, the drum machine, or any midi device, will interfere as it passes the signal down the chain.

[JONFROMJERSEY]

I have it set to midi thru on the drum machine but also with clock in on and clock out on. Otherwise it doesn't work at all. Am I missing something?

[somanytoys]

Good info.

Maybe try turning the “clock out” off on the drum machine. It may be why it’s sending a different signal to the delay than the original midi signal’s timing would be giving it, and it’s throwing off the delay’s timing.

Damn sure worth a shot, and much cheaper than a new midi splitter.

[JONFROMJERSEY]

I have tried that, but then no signal is sent to the delay at all. Both the Clock In and Clock Out (and Midi Thru) have to be on for the Delay to get the clock information.

I did discover that the problem only happens when the drum machine is actually running. That is, playing a pattern. Otherwise it is ok. I can play a song on the DAW, at any tempo, and it syncs correctly with the delay, until I press Play on the drum machine and get the pattern go. Same result if the DAW triggers the pattern to play on the drum machine. No pattern playing, no problem.

Does this give anyone any more ideas?

[somanytoys]

It sounds like the drum machine is the problem, for whatever reason.

I know it isn’t how you want it, but to get it functional, try pulling the drum machine and putting it last, into something else (if it can’t go last) or on the other output of your midi splitter. And/or move the collider into another position so it gets a true signal from the DAW.

But it sounds like the drum machine should go last somewhere or close to it.

[fuzzjunkie]

Three questions:

1- is the DAW set to “Master” and the SR18 set to “Slave?”

2- is the Collider just playing at a faster tempo, or is following the drum pattern?

3- can you set the SR-18 and/or Collider to Midi Mode 3, or only Omni mode?

[JONFROMJERSEY]

I figured out what is going on and the fix is simple but annoying. Everything works fine if I turn the clock out off on the drum machine when I trigger the drum machine with the digital audio Workstation. If I turn the clock on what happens is that the drum machine sort of multiplies the tempo coming from the digital audio workstation. I think someone above may have mentioned something like that. The annoying thing is that I have to turn the clock out on again if I just want to use the drum machine and the delay without the digital audio workstation or else it doesn't work. So I have to keep going back into the menu on the drum machine and changing the setting and saving it again and again. Because I don't always use the drum audio workstation when playing. I guess the other solution would be to get a new splitter and then I could just keep the settings the same all the time because I would not be going through the drum machine. But then I can't trigger the drum machine with the digital audio workstation. To start and stop at cetera.