Why were delay pedals from the 70s often specifically labelled as “Analog Delay” ?

[jorri]

I agree, hence tape would not be a solid substrate. Computers also used tape too, quite a lot. Or the spinning disks vs chips is referred to as the classic HDD vs SSD.

[øøøøøøø]

I agree, hence tape would not be a solid substrate. Computers also used tape too, quite a lot. Or the spinning disks vs chips is referred to as the classic HDD vs SSD.

Tape isn't really part of the "tube versus solid state" discussion.

Tape is not a device that serves to modulate electron flow. It is a medium for storing magnetic domains that can be imprinted with flux to store a facsimile of electron flow.

It is possible for a tape echo to be either "tube" or "solid-state," depending on the electronic topologies of the record and repro amplifiers.

A bucket-brigade analog delay line uses a series of transistor and capacitor elements to "pass" the signal through several stages (4,096 was a common number of stages) in order to create a short delay. It gets its name from an old firefighting technique in which one firefighter would dump a bucket of water into the next firefighter's bucket, and so on and so forth, as a means to transport water from a source to the location of the fire.

Tape delay uses an entirely different mechanism in which an actual analog recording is made in order to be played back a short time later. The associated electronics to carry this out can be either tube or solid-state.

I suppose it's theoretically possible to make a tube-based bucket brigade device, but it would be extremely large (like, filling a room) in order to create a similar delay time to something like an AD-9

[jorri]

I agree, hence tape would not be a solid substrate. Computers also used tape too, quite a lot. Or the spinning disks vs chips is referred to as the classic HDD vs SSD.

Tape isn't really part of the "tube versus solid state" discussion.

Tape is not a device that serves to modulate electron flow. It is a medium for storing magnetic domains that can be imprinted with flux to store a facsimile of electron flow.

It is possible for a tape echo to be either "tube" or "solid-state," depending on the electronics that feed the record and repro amplifiers.

But to that point, that's why its an esoteric use of the term. As in it never meant 'tube' or 'solid state' in general electronics. It generally would be the use of semi-conductors vs. something mechanical in nature - like a tube or hard drive. Computers also used to use magnetic states as the actual chips, sewn together by hand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory - it got apollo to the moon! Hard drives imprint grooves.

[øøøøøøø]

Solid-state as a term describing analog transistor electronics predates solid-state memory by decades--well over half a century in any commercial context.

For decades (up until the 2010s, probably) "solid-state" was virtually synonymous with "transistor- or IC-based, as opposed to vacuum tube based."

For many, many decades its use was the opposite of esoteric--it was a household term understood by almost everyone.

[Embenny]

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to argue against Brad here. He's just plain right. "Solid-state" refers to the use of semiconductor components- be they discrete transistors or ICs.

Even with respect to the name of SSDs, it's not because flash memory is "more solid" or "immobile" compared to HDDs, it's because SSDs are fundamentally made of banks of silicon-based (semiconductor) chips. If you take a flash memory-based SSD and break it down to its functional units, you'll find that its flash chips' memory cells are fundamentally MOSFETs. Those SSDs are based on silicon transistors. Hence, solid-state.

With respect to tape echo, the tape itself is just a storage medium and doesn't necessarily designate the device as tube vs solid-state, or even analog vs digital - all the tape echos actually produced used analog tape, but there's nothing fundamentally stopping someone from producing a digital tape echo using something like ADAT (aside from lack of profitability and commercial appeal, that is).

That could actually be a fun tinkering project for someone, with all those cheap undesired ADAT machines being out there - hooking a couple up into a digital tape delay, though I have no idea how to actually accomplish that.

[Shadoweclipse13]

That could actually be a fun tinkering project for someone, with all those cheap undesired ADAT machines being out there - hooking a couple up into a digital tape delay, though I have no idea how to actually accomplish that.

Ooh!! That could be fun. I also don't know how to do it, haha.

[jorri]

That could actually be a fun tinkering project for someone, with all those cheap undesired ADAT machines being out there - hooking a couple up into a digital tape delay, though I have no idea how to actually accomplish that.

Ooh!! That could be fun. I also don't know how to do it, haha.

Ive seen someone do it with VHS, dictaphones and anything reeally.. No idea about ADAT. Something like the requirement of read,write, erase heads (often cassette doesnt) and making a loop splice of tape. Not much more to it, but delay would be fixed based on head distance unless speed knob.
I get it- mechanical digital!

[jorri]

I also have an old digital camcorder with tapes. Might do it.
I wonder what wow modulation or pushing on it for modulation is like....maybe mad glitchy or noisy like a corrupted audio file?

[jorri]

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to argue against Brad here. He's just plain right. "Solid-state" refers to the use of semiconductor components- be they discrete transistors or ICs.

Even with respect to the name of SSDs, it's not because flash memory is "more solid" or "immobile" compared to HDDs, it's because SSDs are fundamentally made of banks of silicon-based (semiconductor) chips. If you take a flash memory-based SSD and break it down to its functional units, you'll find that its flash chips' memory cells are fundamentally MOSFETs. Those SSDs are based on silicon transistors. Hence, solid-state.

With respect to tape echo, the tape itself is just a storage medium and doesn't necessarily designate the device as tube vs solid-state, or even analog vs digital - all the tape echos actually produced used analog tape, but there's nothing fundamentally stopping someone from producing a digital tape echo using something like ADAT (aside from lack of profitability and commercial appeal, that is).

That could actually be a fun tinkering project for someone, with all those cheap undesired ADAT machines being out there - hooking a couple up into a digital tape delay, though I have no idea how to actually accomplish that.

Well only that if something can be replaced by transistors or ICs then it is a solid state version. Thats all really. You can replace a tape, a disk, or magnetic cores; with semiconductors. Maybe you couldnt back when these terms were made.

But I'll back down if its the wrong terminology, only that some inconsistency in my understanding.

just i thought a traditional hard disk, CD, punchcard or floppy was a type of mechanical (or perhaps magnetic, light-based) storage medium that is not a semiconductor too, but nor is it a vacuum tube. Grooves and a reader. Is a part of a mostly solid state system but is still differentiated from being a solid state device itself.
To this debate, no point really, its clear in a clearly labelled TAPE echo there is an absence of valves so wasnt all that relevant.