Buffer pedals

[fuzzjunkie]

First, patch cables do make a difference.

Oh, I don’t think anyone was denying that. Different cables have different capacitance values that effect tone, as you witnessed.

What we, or at least Jorri and I, were saying is that the cumulative affects of the different capacitance values between different cables used in conjunction would not “hollow” the tone, but would be a sum effect at worst.

A better experiment would have been for you to examine each individually as you did and then in combination and report how that effected the tone. That is all of A, all of B, A + B.

[Jorix]

My patch cables are: Klotz, Planet waves and Rockboard except for two longer cheap ones which I`m planning to replace.

[Firecat]

My patch cables are: Klotz, Planet waves and Rockboard except for two longer cheap ones which I`m planning to replace.

You don't seem to have a tuner on the board. An easy way to add a buffer is getting a buffered tuner and put it first (or after your fuzz and wah if they don't behave well with the buffer).

[kgbAttack]

My patch cables are: Klotz, Planet waves and Rockboard except for two longer cheap ones which I`m planning to replace.

You don't seem to have a tuner on the board. An easy way to add a buffer is getting a buffered tuner and put it first (or after your fuzz and wah if they don't behave well with the buffer).

The Morley Wah has a high-quality buffer, actually. If it's the first on the chain, you should be good to go.

[jorri]

First, patch cables do make a difference.

Oh, I don’t think anyone was denying that. Different cables have different capacitance values that effect tone, as you witnessed.

What we, or at least Jorri and I, were saying is that the cumulative affects of the different capacitance values between different cables used in conjunction would not “hollow” the tone, but would be a sum effect at worst.

A better experiment would have been for you to examine each individually as you did and then in combination and report how that effected the tone. That is all of A, all of B, A + B.

Yep, its just a proportional summing. Seems counterintuitive if know about capacitors but basically between the +ve and -ve is one giant capacitor acting as one.
So patch cables are short, like 4-12". Whilst an input lead is lets say 6 feet. So it depends how many and what size, of course. If its only three short ones then it the change of capacitance isnt going to matter as much. Lets say if its 10% of the length then cheap cables are less important there.

But when they stop working and cut out- now thats much more annoying... I recently shelled out for a few brand of medium price flat cables and they started getting immitent...but some moulded plastic Stagg ones seem to have lasted a while. Bad luck perhaps, but ive on occasion put the reliable 'tone sucking' staggs back in. I must have about 30 of em. Maybe i should try those Ernie Balls.

[fisonic]

Each buffered or engaged pedal acts as a “stage”, effectively isolating each section of cable, which would cancel out the summing of capacitance. That would be the only credible scenario in support for the patch cable theory. I haven’t drunk that coolaide, just playing the advocate .
More inportant is using the highest quality on your long leads & assessing that your existing buffered or engaged pedals have a high input impedance and a low output impedance, which in the absence of could suck your tone.

[øøøøøøø]

Buffer circuitry is trivial and inexpensive. While they can be made poorly, it's not much more difficult (or expensive) to make one well.

For this reason, I don't see much reason to have a dedicated buffer pedal in most cases--careful selection of a few buffered-bypass pedals, placed logically in your chain, will do the job.

On my last touring board (I won't say "current," because... well... no touring since March), the second pedal on my board is an overdrive with a very good buffer in bypass.

I use a Hilton volume pedal in the middle, which has another very good buffer.

And there's a delay at the end that also has a good buffer.

I have one vintage fuzz on there which really needs to see a naked, high-impedance guitar signal to perform its best. It is the first pedal in the chain specifically so that it precedes any and all buffers.

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While it is true that different cable technologies/brands have different amounts of capacitance per foot, I don't see this as the best avenue toward remediating the problem the OP has.

One of the lowest-capacitance cables on the market, George L, has a capacitance of 67pF/ft. An average number might look something like 100pF/ft. In terms of total capacitance, cable length is just as important as cable brand (but not nearly as lucrative for cable manufacturers and dealers!).

And, of course, once the impedance has been lowered (via a buffer), it won't have as much effect.

[jorri]

With patches if you dont use a buffer, it can certainly be worth measuring their length, as above, the length with vary the capacitance more than the actual quality/price. Could be tempting to buy all 12" but i find a bunch of different sizes must really cut down length. Some 4", some longer.