Can someone please explain worship music?

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by HarlowTheFish » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:14 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:38 pm
Suburban White people: "Oh my, that Gospel music is sure nice! We should do our own version!"

Everyone else: "WHUT?"

SWP: "Pastor Jared has an acoustic guitar and Dr. Franklin has a fancy electric guitar with stripes in the wood. We should ask them to do some gospel music!"

Black folks: "WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SHIT, Y'ALL!"
Hey, WASPs have a long tradition of taking things from other cultures and making them worse. Considering how much of WASP culture is a bit of a ripoff of something else, it might be their most defining feature.

- signed, a Brazilian who definitely shouldn't throw shade from inside the pitch-black oubliette of cultural appropriation that is my country

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by sal paradise » Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:34 am

Did the big shift to emo affect worship music at all? I remember hardcore went shoegaze, it seemed that a lot of those hard-partying dudes found god.

I’ve got little knowledge of what worship music is beyond what one sees on tv in the U.K., and Instagram feeds of pedal porn.
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by bah humbuck » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:45 am

My circle of friends in high school included some characters who were involved in this kind of thing. There was a church in my hometown that was helpfully situated directly next to a waste treatment plant and some of them went to to the youth group there. I tagged along a couple times and oh man was it a weird scene.

The music was all variations of C-G-A-F with soaring melodies and the word "rejoice" liberally peppered throughout. I remember how when things really reached their peak you'd see one person, then three, then more put their hands in the air facing outwards like they were satellite dishes, drawing the music into themselves. This was usually accompanied by closed eyes and silent "mouthing" of the lyrics. As a person that was raised Jewish, it struck me how different this was from the music in my congregation. While our Temple Band was generally lively and boisterous, these cats seemed... If anything kind of burnt out, like the music itself was secondary to proving the point of their faithfulness. Or something. It was definitely about creating a mood , or moreso a kind of mass transcendence / hysteria.

It's sad because I listen to a lot of older country & western / Southern Gospel music and I think Christianity really does have a strong musical tradition. Something like this, even through the message of faith is inseparable from the music just as much as in modern worship bands, somehow feels less canned: The Looper Trio - "Life Beyond Death"
I think this "sound" is what those newer groups are reaching for - the soaring harmonies, etc. But something's missing.

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by bah humbuck » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:56 am

sal paradise wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:34 am
Did the big shift to emo affect worship music at all?
That depends a lot on what you mean by emo. The only permutation of it that interests me is the angular, sweatervest-horn-rimmed-glasses version of the early to mid 90s, so I'll cite a track from 1995. Even though this band wasn't expressly a "Christian band", I think the ending part ("Jeeeesus, I hope you're coming back soon") is a maybe philosophically similar musicial choice to some of what these newer worship bands are doing. Mineral - "Dolorosa"

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by budda12ax7 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:19 pm

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:37 pm
Veitchy wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:37 pm


Related: Has anyone ever played doom metal whilst wearing a polo shirt?
no but my friend wears a lot of fred perry polo's and dropped my baritone while my amps and rat were on..... sounded like sunn o))) to me.
Fred Perry polo shirt in the for sale section

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by budda12ax7 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:21 pm

I don’t understand why people are bashing this....strange thread.

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by MechaBulletBill » Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:51 am

Veitchy wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:37 pm
Related: Has anyone ever played doom metal whilst wearing a polo shirt?
the time i saw motorhead, the bassist in one of the supports looked very indie to be playing on lemmy's stage. i don't think they wore a polo exactly that night, but wouldn't be surprised if they'd had one in their suitcase.

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by s_mcsleazy » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:35 am

budda12ax7 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:21 pm
I don’t understand why people are bashing this....strange thread.
i think it might be the same reason i bash a lot of ed sheeran clones. it feels very inauthentic. it doesn't feel like art for art's sake/expression. it feels very cynical but also very hollow and empty. you're not going to see a worship band feel the heat of the moment and start jumping around OR doing improv noise sections because that's not in service of god. it's also got this really squeeky clean image which adds to the feeling of being inauthentic.

if i was to hazard a guess, i feel like most people on this website came into music from listening to grunge, alternative rock, punk, hardcore ect ect. which are genres that feel authentic (for the most part) so something like worship music, which goes against how we were socialized in our respective music scenes feels like commercialization.
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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by Ceylon » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:31 pm

I know taste is different and that the music I listen to isn't really objectively any better or worse than any other. But you've got something like Talk Talk during their Spirit of Eden/Laughing Stock era that's actually such a dense ball of spirituality and atmosphere and a real sense of awe and wonder. A song like New Grass really could bring that sense of transcendence and ephemerality to a service that even I as a die hard agnostic could feel and appreciate. It could be moving.

So if all P&W is is slightly spaced out butt rock with the word rejoice generously sprinkled in then to me that just sort of cheapens the whole thing even more. They say belief in god degraded in countries that turned Protestant because all the bells and whistles were removed from churches and ceremonies to the point that participants no longer experienced the divine presence that Catholicism and ortodox christianity managed to produce. This seems kinda like a gimmick of the decade-thing to try and keep services relevant.

Like Christ, this type of music if any type of music should have some soul.
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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by Maggieo » Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:09 pm

I prefer a choir and and organ for my church music. Especially at a Black church, where that shit gets real. YMMV.
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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by Futuron » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:10 am

Again, some people are missing the point of this kind of church music. Unlike most music, its purpose is not for listening enjoyment, inspiring dance, or for artistic creative outlet. I don't know any actual talented gigging musicians that like it, but that goes for a lot of bland pop too.

It is 100% for ease of participation. It is predictable & easy to sing along to, easy for less-gifted 'musicians' in small-time churches to learn.

If you dislike it, join the club. I wouldn't listen to it on purpose. (But it can still be fun to play, like anything, if you give it your own style using it as a base, it's like being in a flexible cover band - of course nothing beats playing in a proper creative original band.) I really don't know why so many church bands (professional & otherwise) copy each others sound & gear, but they do. I do my own thing.


Bash the creativity (or lack thereof) of this music as much as you like, but that's the same as bashing the news for not being gripping drama.

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by jakeisjake » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:20 am

I am as much of a critic of the worship music/CCM (contemporary Christian Music) scene as many of you are. I think a lot of Criticism is valid. It can be cheesy and generic and formulaic...it can be insincere and fake and phony...but it can also be profound and rich and quite moving. Personally, there are only a couple of Christian bands I listen to with any regularity (Switchfoot, Chris Lizotte, Rich Mullins...maybe bits and pieces of others)...I listen to them because their music is good. It's smart, it's interesting, it's well written and well performed. It would stand on it's own apart from its genre.

the Worship music scene is like music in general and pop music in particular.

For every band that comes along and does something new, strange, interesting and art-worthy...you have 10 other bands that are just copying what the originals did. Think of the psycheldelic scene, the grunge scene, the punk scene, the metal scene...a couple of great bands and a ton of posers. So it is in this setting...it's true, many players are "edge-light". The keyboards are airy and evocative and intended to pull heart strings.

Pop music in particular is designed to be "popular". To be popular you have to be appealing to a wide range of tastes, while at the same time trying to not be offensive to any particular taste. The last thing the preacher wants is for someone to leave church because the music doesn't meet someone's satisfaction (and that happens OFTEN). So the worship band (and the leader in particular) is faced with the task of being appealing to as many people as possible, while not being repulsive to any one in particular. So, of course it can be pretty bland. If it is overly (you can put any adjective here)...it will cause someone to "zone out".

Church music reflects the culture of the average attendee and is intended to convey that the Transcendent is Immanent.

True "Gospel music" (that is, in the sense of the genre of music) is reflective of black culture at the time it developed. It is a style of music that has somethings in common with other church music...but it is, at its heart, culturally relevant to blacks. If you visit a Latino church, you may hear music that reflects their culture. Back in the 80s and 90s the church I attended rented to a "Gypsy Church" (that's what they themselves called it at that time, sorry for not being pc)...Their music reflected their culture, intended to be relatable, enjoyable, expressive and responsive to its hearers (I would dare say "participants" because worship is intended to be participated in, rather than just listened to.
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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by Maggieo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:40 am

jakeisjake wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:20 am
True "Gospel music" (that is, in the sense of the genre of music) is reflective of black culture at the time it developed. It is a style of music that has somethings in common with other church music...but it is, at its heart, culturally relevant to blacks. If you visit a Latino church, you may hear music that reflects their culture. Back in the 80s and 90s the church I attended rented to a "Gypsy Church" (that's what they themselves called it at that time, sorry for not being pc)...Their music reflected their culture, intended to be relatable, enjoyable, expressive and responsive to its hearers (I would dare say "participants" because worship is intended to be participated in, rather than just listened to.
Yet another example of the decline of White People Music. :fp:
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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by jakeisjake » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:22 am

Maggieo wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:40 am
jakeisjake wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:20 am
True "Gospel music" (that is, in the sense of the genre of music) is reflective of black culture at the time it developed. It is a style of music that has somethings in common with other church music...but it is, at its heart, culturally relevant to blacks. If you visit a Latino church, you may hear music that reflects their culture. Back in the 80s and 90s the church I attended rented to a "Gypsy Church" (that's what they themselves called it at that time, sorry for not being pc)...Their music reflected their culture, intended to be relatable, enjoyable, expressive and responsive to its hearers (I would dare say "participants" because worship is intended to be participated in, rather than just listened to.
Yet another example of the decline of White People Music. :fp:
I'm not sure what you mean...but, I do agree that "pop music" (and it's worship music equivalent), is a negative and not a positive thing
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

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Re: Can someone please explain worship music?

Post by Maggieo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:35 am

jakeisjake wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:22 am
Maggieo wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:40 am
jakeisjake wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:20 am
True "Gospel music" (that is, in the sense of the genre of music) is reflective of black culture at the time it developed. It is a style of music that has somethings in common with other church music...but it is, at its heart, culturally relevant to blacks. If you visit a Latino church, you may hear music that reflects their culture. Back in the 80s and 90s the church I attended rented to a "Gypsy Church" (that's what they themselves called it at that time, sorry for not being pc)...Their music reflected their culture, intended to be relatable, enjoyable, expressive and responsive to its hearers (I would dare say "participants" because worship is intended to be participated in, rather than just listened to.
Yet another example of the decline of White People Music. :fp:
I'm not sure what you mean...but, I do agree that "pop music" (and it's worship music equivalent), is a negative and not a positive thing
That's pretty much it. Gospel and worship music has followed the trends in current pop music, to its detriment.
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.

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