Watch out for Waves...

Get that song on tape! Errr... disk?
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Larry Mal
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:18 pm

Jaguar018 wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:16 am
Larry Mal wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:58 am
Well, what am I going to talk about now? I really had something going there.
How about armchair quarterbacking Fender Corp some more? I NEVER get tired of you going on about that.
I got you, baby. Just let them release some bullshit Jaguar but this time it's got a Bigsby and a Tuna-Matic on there and you know where I'll be.

Because as this thread shows, bloated international corporations don't always know what's best.
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by JM Convert » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:26 pm

From your mouth to Fender's ears.

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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:56 pm

JM Convert wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:26 pm
From your mouth to Fender's ears.
I wish. Obviously, my mild criticisms here were way too much for Waves to handle, and so as soon as they became aware of my disappointment they reversed course. That's very kind of them and I appreciate Waves for caring so much, although a good part of my morning was somewhat worse than it might have been otherwise, but I'll rise above that.

I'm a very sensitive person, you understand, and it's good of Waves to take measures to not upset me.

Fender, though, feels like a calculated insult, like somewhere amidst the dust and cobwebs in Fender's "research and development" branch, next to the mop bucket and the utility sink, some Fender employee is screwing some lackluster Chinese sourced humbuckers to some stray guitar body and hissing "Fuck Larry."
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Dok » Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:42 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:56 pm

Fender, though, feels like a calculated insult, like somewhere amidst the dust and cobwebs in Fender's "research and development" branch, next to the mop bucket and the utility sink, some Fender employee is screwing some lackluster Chinese sourced humbuckers to some stray guitar body and hissing "Fuck Larry."
Once again, The Big Lebowski is relevant here. "DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS, LARRY!??! DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU... " well, you know.
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:45 pm

Meet a stranger in the Alps.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by JM Convert » Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:19 pm

I met a stranger in the Alps once...

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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Embenny » Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:06 pm

The question is, who would be crazy enough to go and buy new, expensive perpetually-licensed plugins from Waves after this? They telegraphed their intentions. Just because perpetual licenses got a stay of execution doesn't mean they have any kind of future with the company.

Basically everything they make is also made by multiple other companies. I can't imagine someone spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on one of their bundles after this stunt.
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:14 pm

Embenny wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:06 pm
The question is, who would be crazy enough to go and buy new, expensive perpetually-licensed plugins from Waves after this? They telegraphed their intentions. Just because perpetual licenses got a stay of execution doesn't mean they have any kind of future with the company.

Basically everything they make is also made by multiple other companies. I can't imagine someone spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on one of their bundles after this stunt.
That's the question, right? I mean, I was dutifully upgrading my Waves stuff to be able to use it on my new Mac, I only spent like $80, but there were upgrade paths that would have put me to one of their more comprehensive packages (Platinum or Horizon, hadn't decided).

So I really don't know what do to. Do I scrap the investment I made in Waves? There's only a few of their plug ins I'm wild about or depend on.

I spent some time on Softtube's site, if I was starting over- which I might be- I would have bought more of their stuff.
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Embenny » Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:03 pm

I've spent more on Softube's stuff than any other plugin developer, for sure. I wait for sales, but they still aren't cheap. Still, I prefer it to subscription-based nonsense. But just like Apple, they sucked me in with compelling hardware. I don't know if I'd have made my way to them if they hadn't released the Console 1.

I don't know what I'd do in your shoes. I'm inclined to say, "fuck 'em," but I don't know how much money you've sunk in, how much you actually enjoy the plugins, how much it would cost to upgrade, or how much it would cost to replace them with available alternatives.

I know if Softube turned around tomorrow and tried this forced subscription nonsense, I'd be both utterly pissed and totally unsure as to whether I'd be willing to give up using their products.
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:57 am

Embenny wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:03 pm
I don't know what I'd do in your shoes. I'm inclined to say, "fuck 'em," but I don't know how much money you've sunk in, how much you actually enjoy the plugins, how much it would cost to upgrade, or how much it would cost to replace them with available alternatives.
I can go either way. The stock Logic plugins do a great job, I also have among other things the full T-Racks suite and Komplete. Both of those come with various hardware emulations and other plugins these days. If I never had another Waves plugin again, I probably have more than I would ever need.

However, since I was upgrading my stuff over the last couple of weeks, I was looking at some upgrade paths that they had. I have the "Gold and Ren Maxx" bundle, so I could upgrade to the Platinum bundle, which adds more plugs ins and updates all the previous ones at an attractive price. I think it was around $120.

I was thinking to move to other bundles from there so I could get all my licenses under one easy to update umbrella.

That option is not gone. I can update my software, sure. Or I can subscribe.

But that special price to move to the next tier is gone. Not sure if it will be back. Maybe that's the new carrot and stick here to make me subscribe.

But it won't.
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by JSett » Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:18 am

On a marginally related note I was sad to see that Reaper (my preferred DAW) had decided, while I was away, to revoke my 'grandfather rights' license key that was (supposedly) forever. No apparent reason, just to be dicks I guess.
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by NBarnes21 » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:22 am

I got out of the Waves system years ago cause of their stupid waves update plan, and I sold all my licenses on eBay. Once I got an Apollo and a bunch of UAD plugins there wasn't much need for the waves stuff. Smart of Waves to backtrack and decide to still offer perpetual licenses- this is what Slate Digital did when they went subscription. I owned a fair amount of Slate plugins and didn't want to start up their subscription even though they offered 12 months free I think- I knew the second I used one of the new plugins from the subscription model I'd be stuck paying for it in perpetuity cause I regularly have to open up years' old composing sessions for sync opportunities. I haven't bought any of the new Slate stuff and just use their plugins that I already owned- but to their credit I just got a free update to FGX 2.0 from a plugin I bought almost 10 years ago (something Waves would NEVER do).

Apple is genius to offer Logic so cheap cause as mentioned it totally is a driver of their hardware sales. They regularly release updates that are only compatible with a few of the most recent OS updates so if you want the new features you gotta have the latest OS which inevitably means at some point you'll need a new computer (although I did manage to hold out almost 10 years on an iMac till I just got a Mac Studio). And for someone who already owns a mac and want's to get into music production it's a total no brainer.
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Re: Watch out for Waves..

Post by budda12ax7 » Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:33 pm

That’s a load of crap....really....won’t use Waves stuff....there are many companies making the same thing. I am using the Presonus studio one stuff, but it just updates like every three years or two years...they have a subscription path, but I just bought it outright and it’s great.

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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:11 am

Yeah, they've still lost me. I'm not mad or anything but I'll likely upgrade a few of the more unique things and then just let the rest go.

The problem is that they used to offer a nice pathway towards moving to new bundles, which importantly allowed me to consolidate under one package that I could then pay to upgrade.

But now it's just me paying to upgrade things that I might have bought for $29 but now that I have to pay for it again, I don't want to. Not really sure why Waves is making me make this choice, but a lot of it I bought thinking it might be fun or useful and now I guess it's not worth further investment.

I'm actually looking over the list, there's Waves Tune, which is a Melodyne style pitch editor, completely unnecessary as that kind of pitch editing software is already built into Logic and most other DAWs I can think of. There's IR-1, which is pretty nice convolution reverb, but again that kind of reverb is pretty much everywhere now. I haven't had to pay to upgrade the built in one in Logic over the last thirteen years, for instance.

On the other hand, there is the Vocal Rider and Center plug ins, Vocal Rider is kind of unique with Waves and Center is just well done for what it is, so I'll upgrade those.

The rest of the Waves stuff I have is nice, but not essential. And anyway I think I have stopped accumulating plug ins and should just focus on a few essential tools.

So where does Waves come into that? Well, not all that well. They based their business model on selling plug ins for cheap that you might not really use all that much but they are fun and could help you be creative.

And now all of the sudden they want to do a whole new business model, so I imagine people all over the world are re-thinking their relationship with this company.

Which is the exact opposite of what Waves wanted with this move.

As a side note, I've been watching some videos by Barry Johns, and he was pretty unimpressed with what Waves did, but he also takes time to remind me of how much I hate Avid, the people who bought Pro Tools.

I hate Avid, like, a lot, and while Pro Tools is good software I can't imagine why anybody would spend that kind of outlay on Pro Tools at this point. I'm sure someone would say "Well if you are in a pro studio and you have to work with Pro Tools project files all the time", and sure, but that's just inertia. I know that Pro Tools does shine in post production environments, but why anyone would use Pro Tools for music production any more I have no idea.
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Re: Watch out for Waves...

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:40 am

It’s because Pro Tools is still widely considered uniquely-capable of rapid, intense editing of audio files.

For MIDI and virtual instruments, it’s inferior to Logic. For loop-based workflows and running tracks for live shows, it’s inferior to Ableton Live.

But for precise, expedient, highly-flexible editing of large numbers of .wav audio files… even when tracks number in the hundreds or thousands (e.g. when mixing for film)… it’s still the best DAW (IMO) for that application.

It’s (lately) stable, well-engineered, and supported by virtually every major third party plug-in vendor. It’s got very good notation software integration (if you’re into that)

Perhaps most importantly: there are legions of professionals with tons of seat time who can play its hotkeys like virtuoso pianists.

You may dismiss this as “inertia,” but the ability to use such a deep and capable application at that level takes years to perfect (not entirely unlike playing an instrument at a very high level).

I’m a pretty functional Pro Tools user, but I’ve been in rooms with people whose speed flying around the app was quite literally stunning to me. When someone looks like they’re typing 95wpm and clips are just flying around the screen, you realize that developing that skillset is not quite the same as learning to use Microsoft Word.

I can understand being reluctant to start over with a different app that may not even be as powerful for my most-used task

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