Condenser Microphone(s) help required...

[northern_dirt]

When you say "O brand" are you talking about the Octava's?  I thought there were actually two types of Octavas - the Russian made ones, and the ones that were being made in China by some British company who claims to have the rights to the brand name.  I think the Russian ones are the ones harder to come by and the more valuable of the two although I think they both have been known to suffer from QC. 

No.. Cheap-0.. as in cheapy.. insert generic cheap brand in here

[eggwheat]

Okay.  So I'm thinking...

1.  Pair of Neumann KM 184s (unless I happen upon a pair of KM84s)
2.  Pair of AKG C451Bs
3.  Pair of Oktava AK012s

Thoughts on those specific models, anybody?

This is quite contrary to your original post as you've now chosen three pretty bright and neutral mics.

KM184..dont like these at all compared to the KM84 it's like night and day. Orignal KM84 will cost you at least $2000 for a pair and wouldnt be my first choice for acoustic guitar anyway. Drum Overheads yes all the way my #1 choice.

C451B Fantastic Microphone but again very bright and neutral..not too expensive and an industry standard.

Octava to me are again quite bright, silghtly more coloured, slighly more hyped in the top end but fantastic value.

[Ursoluno]

Okay.  So I'm thinking...

1.  Pair of Neumann KM 184s (unless I happen upon a pair of KM84s)
2.  Pair of AKG C451Bs
3.  Pair of Oktava AK012s

Thoughts on those specific models, anybody?

This is quite contrary to your original post as you've now chosen three pretty bright and neutral mics.

KM184..dont like these at all compared to the KM84 it's like night and day. Orignal KM84 will cost you at least $2000 for a pair and wouldnt be my first choice for acoustic guitar anyway. Drum Overheads yes all the way my #1 choice.

C451B Fantastic Microphone but again very bright and neutral..not too expensive and an industry standard.

Octava to me are again quite bright, silghtly more coloured, slighly more hyped in the top end but fantastic value.

To be fair, every small diaphragm condenser mic I've run across is pretty bright.

Is there such thing as a darker-sounding pencil microphone?

[northern_dirt]

Okay.  So I'm thinking...

1.  Pair of Neumann KM 184s (unless I happen upon a pair of KM84s)
2.  Pair of AKG C451Bs
3.  Pair of Oktava AK012s

Thoughts on those specific models, anybody?

This is quite contrary to your original post as you've now chosen three pretty bright and neutral mics.

KM184..dont like these at all compared to the KM84 it's like night and day. Orignal KM84 will cost you at least $2000 for a pair and wouldnt be my first choice for acoustic guitar anyway. Drum Overheads yes all the way my #1 choice.

C451B Fantastic Microphone but again very bright and neutral..not too expensive and an industry standard.

Octava to me are again quite bright, silghtly more coloured, slighly more hyped in the top end but fantastic value.

To be fair, every small diaphragm condenser mic I've run across is pretty bright.

Is there such thing as a darker-sounding pencil microphone?

Pencil ribbon?

[Ursoluno]

Pencil ribbon?

What?

[ugly casanova]

and it's just wrong. might be your experience, but in fact the large diapragm condenser mics just sound 'bigger' than the sound "de facto" is.
thats the reason why most of the singing is done with large diapragm mics, althoug even THAT depends just on the voice of the singer.

the rule is: acoustic guitars = small diapragms because those won't colour the sound to much and keep it realistic.

but if you think its better the other way around, try it that way. in fact there is no 'rule' which mic would be the best.. it's just what i've read on most webpages about recording!

[Ursoluno]

and it's just wrong. might be your experience, but in fact the large diapragm condenser mics just sound 'bigger' than the sound "de facto" is.
thats the reason why most of the singing is done with large diapragm mics, althoug even THAT depends just on the voice of the singer.

the rule is: acoustic guitars = small diapragms because those won't colour the sound to much and keep it realistic.

but if you think its better the other way around, try it that way. in fact there is no 'rule' which mic would be the best.. it's just what i've read on most webpages about recording!

And what's just wrong?  I'm so confused...

To those ribbon microphone devotees - I was never under the impression that ribbon microphones were a good match for acoustic guitars.  Is this not the case?

[glimmertwin]

I always thought the general rule of thumb is LDCs on more intimate performances like solo fingerpicked guitar and more delicate strumming where you want to capture the detail and the SDCs on hard strumming and things that need to fit into a busy mix where you need a more focused guitar sound.   

[eggwheat]

Okay.  So I'm thinking...

1.  Pair of Neumann KM 184s (unless I happen upon a pair of KM84s)
2.  Pair of AKG C451Bs
3.  Pair of Oktava AK012s

Thoughts on those specific models, anybody?

This is quite contrary to your original post as you've now chosen three pretty bright and neutral mics.

KM184..dont like these at all compared to the KM84 it's like night and day. Orignal KM84 will cost you at least $2000 for a pair and wouldnt be my first choice for acoustic guitar anyway. Drum Overheads yes all the way my #1 choice.

C451B Fantastic Microphone but again very bright and neutral..not too expensive and an industry standard.

Octava to me are again quite bright, silghtly more coloured, slighly more hyped in the top end but fantastic value.

To be fair, every small diaphragm condenser mic I've run across is pretty bright.

Is there such thing as a darker-sounding pencil microphone?

Yes..the AKG C61 is one that comes to mind and that gives one of the best acoustic guitar sounds Ive ever heard...but now we're getting vintage.. Didnt you ask for warm and colourful in the first post you wrote?

Forget rules..grab a few pointers and then use the ears..

[eggwheat]

and it's just wrong. might be your experience, but in fact the large diapragm condenser mics just sound 'bigger' than the sound "de facto" is.
thats the reason why most of the singing is done with large diapragm mics, althoug even THAT depends just on the voice of the singer.

the rule is: acoustic guitars = small diapragms because those won't colour the sound to much and keep it realistic.

but if you think its better the other way around, try it that way. in fact there is no 'rule' which mic would be the best.. it's just what i've read on most webpages about recording!

And what's just wrong?  I'm so confused...

To those ribbon microphone devotees - I was never under the impression that ribbon microphones were a good match for acoustic guitars.  Is this not the case?

Royer 121 is certainly a nice mic for acoustic guitar among other things but it is a very dark sounding microphone...

[Ursoluno]

Yes..the AKG C61 is one that comes to mind and that gives one of the best acoustic guitar sounds Ive ever heard...but now we're getting vintage.. Didnt you ask for warm and colourful in the first post you wrote?

Forget rules..grab a few pointers and then use the ears..

I did, yes.  But it appears that current microphones can't deliver what I'm looking for.  I can't go the vintage route.  It's expensive and risky.

I like the idea of "using the ears," but there's no real way I can do that.  There isn't much of a "try before you buy" microphone vendor out there, as far as I'm concerned.

[Meshuggahnans]

I like the idea of "using the ears," but there's no real way I can do that.  There isn't much of a "try before you buy" microphone vendor out there, as far as I'm concerned.

Did you check out that listening sessions website?

[northern_dirt]

Yes..the AKG C61 is one that comes to mind and that gives one of the best acoustic guitar sounds Ive ever heard...but now we're getting vintage.. Didnt you ask for warm and colourful in the first post you wrote?

Forget rules..grab a few pointers and then use the ears..

I did, yes.  But it appears that current microphones can't deliver what I'm looking for.  I can't go the vintage route.  It's expensive and risky.

I like the idea of "using the ears," but there's no real way I can do that.  There isn't much of a "try before you buy" microphone vendor out there, as far as I'm concerned.

Umm there should be.. Ive had offers to revue gear from guys in the US..
Who'd ship it up here for trial.. plus most gear stores will help you out and
let you borrow stuff (now this depends on how good of a customber you are..
but you could always rent, see what you like..)

[fuzzjunkie]

"To be fair, every small diaphragm condenser mic I've run across is pretty bright.

Is there such thing as a darker-sounding pencil microphone?"

i don't have 1st hand experience, but there is a lot of buzz about this mic right now, the Chameleon Labs TS-1

http://www.chameleonlabs.com/product2.htm

they make reasonably priced gear for the project studio that sounds high end.

[stereosanctity]

Octavas are great microphones, got a pair of MK012's a few months ago and don't regret it a bit!  I got them through The Sound Room (www.oktava.com) and they were great to deal with.  They ship the Russian mics, not the Chinese ones or whatever.