Ribbon mics, what are the favorites that are under $2k?

[DeathJag]

Looking to fatten up my drums and guitar tracks, add more woof and thump. I'm not looking to spend $25k on a quad of U47s or U87s. I'm not looking for vintage tube mics and I never plan on doing vocals with it. I have a pair of Schoeps cmc6mk21 / mk41 for room or overheads so the condenser thing is covered.

I'm looking at a pair of Coles 4038s, British and reported to be dark and warm. That would be super useful for toms and kick, possibly even overhead to tame cymbals. I'd like to be able to use them on guitar cabs also.

Any other notable models worth considering?

[cpeck]

Love my Royer 121 on distorted guitar.

[øøøøøøø]

You will not want to put any* ribbon mic up close on kick. Toms = risky, and generally not especially cool anyway.

Coles 4038s are great overheads, though

*the Crowley and Tripp/Shure ribbons that are metallized plastic film are obviously fine

[Dok]

The 4038s are widely used as drum overheads for very good reason! Outside of that I have a ton of personal experience with the Beyer m160. It's the only mic I need on guitar amps, and I also use it on piano and it makes a GREAT mono drum overhead, especially if your cymbals are too bright and trashy. My favorite microphone I've ever owned (and I've had a bunch including some Neumanns). Also great for woodwinds should you ever find yourself needing to record one (with a pop filter).

[Emil]

Beyer M160 is a killer on guitar amp and snare. Every time you usually use a SM57, the M160 sounds way better.

[JSett]

I had a pair of 4038s for a few years. I agree with others here that they were utterly delightful as overheads. They have a lovely rolloff in the high end that makes cymbals sound smooth as silk and they are vey detailed.

I quite liked one in front of an acoustic guitar too, combined with a condenser.

[Larry Mal]

I quite liked one in front of an acoustic guitar too, combined with a condenser.

Yeah, no doubt. I don't have a particularly high end ribbon microphone or anything, but I still recall the day I put that in front of my J-35 and then used one of my Neumann SDCs. I was not expecting much from the ribbon, but all of the sudden when I heard the two of them I couldn't help notice that the ribbon provided a sound that was up front and intimate, maybe lacking in some high end detail, but excellent in its own way.

[fortytwo]

Beyer M160 for sure, it sounds great on both overheads and guitars.

I had a Royer once, but sold it again after I shot it out against my old B&O BM3, that had the complete Xaudia Mics works done to it.
The guy that runs Xaudia also makes new mics under the name Extinct Audio, and I'm guessing that he does the same thing to those mics, as he did to my BM3.

[DeathJag]

Thanks for all the great tips! I was hoping for something I could put about a foot away from the toms, and they get hit very hard.

These Crowley and Tripp/Shure ribbons, do they have a similar sound? I read about many folks using U87s on floor toms, how come those don't break?

I guess I don't understand how high of an SPL is too much to pop one of those things. I usually record guitars pretty loud because I like hearing the natural room reverb (on distant mics).

[JSett]

Thanks for all the great tips! I was hoping for something I could put about a foot away from the toms, and they get hit very hard.

These Crowley and Tripp/Shure ribbons, do they have a similar sound? I read about many folks using U87s on floor toms, how come those don't break?

I guess I don't understand how high of an SPL is too much to pop one of those things. I usually record guitars pretty loud because I like hearing the natural room reverb (on distant mics).

If those toms are getting hammered then detail isn't really an issue - unlike, say, a brushed jazz kit. For thumping toms that get thwacked I'd be inclined to just throw some Senheiser MD421's on them. Tried and tested. You'll get a massive sound with loads of attack and you can gather detail with your overheads and extra body from the room mics

[øøøøøøø]

U87s aren’t especially fragile… they handle extremely high SPL with the pad engaged, and can get knocked around pretty good and still survive (albeit with dented grille, usually!)

The issue with ribbons isn’t SPL necessarily… it’s trauma and air blasts.

A kick drum can make a pretty serious rush of air… you can feel it with your hand. Even if a mic escapes instant death, over time this will fatigue and stretch a ribbon. With a 4038, most likely it would sound distorted from the first note, and then the ribbon would never sound as good after that until replaced.

A 4038 doesn’t even hold up well to guitar amp IME, unless the amp is pretty quiet or the mic is pretty far away. Kick drum is a total nonstarter

The more durable ribbons like an M160 might survive on toms for awhile… but an errant stick hit is bad news. And they might distort and eventually fatigue anyway, and they probably wouldn’t do anything special sonically. If I were going to do it, I'd at least make sure I had enough that I could reserve two or three only for tom duty, and label them so they didn't get mixed up with the ones I actually wanted to ensure were in-spec.

I’ve used an RCA 77DX on snare before because I saw an old photo of one on Al Jackson's snare. It did sound pretty cool… but very specific and it’s not a regular go to move for me. Not a lot of transient; pretty fat sounding. Interesting, but a KM84 is also pretty fat sounding on snare (and has a pad that can be engaged). A KM84 will also live long... a 77 used regularly on snare probably couldn't be trusted to sound the same indefinitely.

I guess the main takeaway: microphone selection really has to be done empirically. Very often what seems like it "ought to be true" isn't. Some things just don't end up how you'd expect them to end up. The fact that you don’t often see ribbons on kick or toms hints at an expert consensus.

I've never tried the C&T/Shure metallized plastic film ribbon mics, but they do exist and should be much more durable.

[Dok]

Something I like with these particular mics on drums:

U87 in omni above the drummer's right shoulder (or cardioid, pointing at the floor beneath the snare, depending on your room and desired outcome), sometimes that's all you need for an overhead sound.

or

M160 in that position or an OH centered over the snare drum.

and

Since everybody seems to have an Oktava MK-012 or two laying around, these actually make GREAT tom mics, although many people put them on overheads and don't try them anywhere else.

[DeathJag]

Oh man this are some GREAT thoughts! I appreciate you all taking the time to share them. Truly. I think I'll try some Coles and m160s, and get a few more 421s for close up stuff. I only have one and I've been using it on the bass. After I save a bunch more money of course!

[Embenny]

The issue with ribbons isn’t SPL necessarily… it’s trauma and air blasts.

That's what I was taught, which always made me wonder about guitar amps.

Have you ever found a difference in longevity or risk of damage with larger speakers and sealed cabs vs smaller ones and ported or open-back cabs?

I've experienced plenty of 12" and 15" speakers in closed-back cabs that can really get your pant legs flapping if you stand in front of them, especially when paired with a bassy amp. Meanwhile, you might have a blackface or tweed Fender style amp hitting similar SPLs with a 10" speaker and open cabinet, and you just don't get that. kind of air displacement. I'm not sure if it's the speaker excursion that changes, or the decreased air pressure inside an open cabinet, or the amount of low frrquency content coming from the amp circuit itself, but it's very noticeable.

The latter type seems much better suited to a ribbon mic, mechanically-speaking.

[JSett]

Since everybody seems to have an Oktava MK-012 or two laying around, these actually make GREAT tom mics, although many people put them on overheads and don't try them anywhere else.

These are great on many things. Toms are one for sure. I liked pairing them up with a ribbon on a guitar cab too. They're small enough to squeeze into lots of tight gaps and the interchangeable capsules are great.