Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
Post Reply
User avatar
Towomba
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:13 am

Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by Towomba » Wed May 05, 2021 11:46 am

Hey to all you wise people :)

I‘m about to sell my 65 Sunburst Jaguar, L Series, still unbound August neck - all original.

Why? Well, I always wanted a Jazzmaster and the shorter Jaguar scale isnt to my liking really.

I see the prices pretty much went crazy, wow. Vintage market seems pretty empty. Shops selling vintage Fenders and Gibsons literally in minutes and hours after listing them over here in germany/europe.

Anyway, Im totally fine with a refin 63-65 player Jazzmaster, I dont need an collectors item.

I saw a listing of 63 Jazzmaster. Refin in black, new decal, refret, green guard (so it was custom colour probably), pots 61 and 63, bridge pickup is from 1973 for about 3790€. Its „on hold“ currently... Wouldnt buy it without playing of course, but the price seems „okay“ for the current market?

Would it be better to wait some weeks/months and do you think the market will calm down a bit? I have like 5k-6k to spend for an original or refin player 63-65...

Thanks in advance!

User avatar
graceless
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:33 pm
Location: California

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by graceless » Wed May 05, 2021 11:48 am

The market isn't going to calm down. Just buy it if you see it and like it. I mean, what if it 'crashes' 30%? That's only like a year or two of growth. Then it will climb again.

User avatar
bterry
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:53 am

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by bterry » Wed May 05, 2021 2:34 pm

I wouldn’t wait, either - the guitar market might be a bit hot in general but the Jazzmaster market has been heating up for a few years now and it’s really about Jazzmaster supply/demand more than Covid supply/demand.

Just my .02 cents, if you are buying now find the most original guitar you can afford that you love as a player as well, no point in buying a refin or parts guitar you don’t love the sound and feel of. If you find an all-original JM with the same criteria that you can ‘afford’ don’t think twice...

User avatar
mgeek
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:03 pm

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by mgeek » Thu May 06, 2021 2:20 am

graceless wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 11:48 am
The market isn't going to calm down. Just buy it if you see it and like it. I mean, what if it 'crashes' 30%? That's only like a year or two of growth. Then it will climb again.
Things don't just go up in value indefinitely, forever. Vintage electric guitars are a bubble that's gonna burst once the boomers are are all dead. Most expensive guitars aren't rare, they were mass produced in huge amounts to cater for a new trend.

User avatar
bterry
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:53 am

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by bterry » Thu May 06, 2021 8:10 am

^^^ With all due respect that is a really bad take, especially concerning Fender and Gibson guitars.

User avatar
mgeek
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:03 pm

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by mgeek » Thu May 06, 2021 2:24 pm

bterry wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:10 am
^^^ With all due respect that is a really bad take, especially concerning Fender and Gibson guitars.
When I say 'with all due respect' I mean 'this is easily the stupidest thing I've read this week, are you crazy', so - noted, thanks! ;D

Only time will tell whether I'm right or not regarding the values dropping, but I'm not wrong about the quantities. Who made more guitars than Fender in the mid sixties? Some of the old gear I'm after, it's really a question of waiting 5, 10 years for one to turn up and getting lucky. If you want a pre cbs JM you just need to rustle up the cash and take your pick. At the very least it will be interesting to see if/how that demographic shift changes things.

User avatar
gishuk
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1297
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:57 am
Location: Devon, UK

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by gishuk » Thu May 06, 2021 2:40 pm

I think while the market overall may dip for a while when boomers gear comes onto the market as you say, the price of Jazzmasters could also be normalizing against the price of Strats and Teles, which if thats the case they could still rise a lot even if the overall trend is for prices to dip.

User avatar
Highnumbers
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:21 am
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by Highnumbers » Thu May 06, 2021 5:26 pm

gishuk wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:40 pm
I think while the market overall may dip for a while when boomers gear comes onto the market as you say, the price of Jazzmasters could also be normalizing against the price of Strats and Teles, which if thats the case they could still rise a lot even if the overall trend is for prices to dip.
^^ That's just it.

Fender probably sold 4x as many Strats in the first half of the 1960s (I'd love to see actual numbers, but just going by what the used market reflects and the fact that Strats were cheaper).

Yet Strats sell for 3x the price of a Jazzmaster (let's just use sunburst-to-sunburst)?

You either make the argument that Strats are a massive bubble, or more realistically, it's that Jazzmasters have been historically underpriced and are just starting to pick up momentum.

I fully expect to see the price of basic 60s Strats to come down while prices on Jazzmasters come up to about the same level, within the next 5-10 years.

Personally I would not wait to see if prices drop on JMs, because all signs point to that NOT happening. I'm not a gambling man but it sure seems like a fairly calculated risk buying one right now, I wouldn't hesitate.

User avatar
mgeek
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:03 pm

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by mgeek » Thu May 06, 2021 11:59 pm

gishuk wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:40 pm
I think while the market overall may dip for a while when boomers gear comes onto the market as you say, the price of Jazzmasters could also be normalizing against the price of Strats and Teles, which if thats the case they could still rise a lot even if the overall trend is for prices to dip.
True - even ten years ago good vintage Jazzmasters still sold for less than they cost new in real terms. Those relative values sites are pretty useful for that sort of thing.

User avatar
supersonicjazzmaster
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:10 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Sun May 09, 2021 10:15 am

Ah, yes, the black one. I have seen it also. :)
I was also thinking about this one. But I don´t buy it.
The price is not bad I would say.
I already have a 1964 Jazzmaster and a surprisingly good CIJ from 2002.
The neck on the black one looks very nice.
The refin doesn´t effect the sound.
If it´s not what you expected you also can sell it for the same price (or more) I guess.
I would also say: Get it!!
Ah, it´s reserved I have seen ( hope you are the one!). :)
It starts... when it begins.
Ralf Kilauea

User avatar
Towomba
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:13 am

Re: Buying a Pre CBS Jazzmaster in Europe

Post by Towomba » Fri May 28, 2021 12:02 am

Hey guys, thanks a lot to everyone replying.

Short update: I looked at two cool refins (with some changed parts) that got sold pretty quick. Otherwise vintage JM dont really show up at the moment, at least not in shops.

Had some contact to private sellers:

- played a beast of a 62 player, really cool and beat up. Was a little to pricy (though a good price, but quite above my limit) and I didnt take it. Seller had a 64/65 Sunburst that was a hell of a guitar, to my mind better neck and sounded different/more beautiful to me. Price was right but he couldnt part with it, understandably. Such a cool guitar

- got offered a 63 all original in olympic white. Looked cool, but I passed.

- maybe I will try an early 65 in the next weeks which looks promising and the price seems „okayish“ I guess. No OHSC but Im fine with that.

I do tend to fall in love with 64s/65s, the pickups and necks of these seem to be really great for my taste and the bursts are generally beautiful.

Maybe I can present a NGD to you in the near future :)

Cheers to all

Post Reply