The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by BTL » Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:31 pm

I thoroughly enjoyed your Mess-Stang refurbish, so I will watch this space with interest.
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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by JSett » Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:40 pm

BeeTL wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:31 pm
I thoroughly enjoyed your Mess-Stang refurbish, so I will watch this space with interest.
Well, initial impressions from the pictures I've seen look like it's almost certainly it's original finish - but we'll soon see about that. Being almost as common a colour as sunburst I wouldn't feel too bad about the possibility of a refin. If I did then I'd get someone else to do a proper job of it (likely Rexter)...But all in due course
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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by JamesSGBrown » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:50 am

I think buying a perfectly good stock vintage instrument just to irreversibly mod it is maybe a bit... in poor taste. But if it's already a beater then sure why not.
Given the amount of stuff you buy and sell (we're all guilty), surely you do run the risk of modding a vintage piece just to end up not 'bonding' with it and then end up a) losing money on it and b) doing permanent 'damage' to the piece that any subsequent owner may despise?

But they are just wood with strings on and magnets in at the end of the day.

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by JSett » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:59 am

JamesSGBrown wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:50 am
I think buying a perfectly good stock vintage instrument just to irreversibly mod it is maybe a bit... in poor taste. But if it's already a beater then sure why not.
Given the amount of stuff you buy and sell (we're all guilty), surely you do run the risk of modding a vintage piece just to end up not 'bonding' with it and then end up a) losing money on it and b) doing permanent 'damage' to the piece that any subsequent owner may despise?

But they are just wood with strings on and magnets in at the end of the day.
A lot of my buying and selling is either for self-entertainment or, during our lockdowns here in the UK, a way to make a small bit of money with what knowledge I have with gear (I wasn't allowed to work for 9 months out of the last 12!).

Oh, I certainly wouldn't be modifying anything like this until I'd given it due time and settled on it being a 'keeper' - I have some sense of responsibility at least. I had every intention of modifying my '73 Mustang when I got it but I've grown to love the things I thought I'd dislike about it so have left it alone and play the bastard thing
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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by JamesSGBrown » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:07 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:59 am
JamesSGBrown wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:50 am
I think buying a perfectly good stock vintage instrument just to irreversibly mod it is maybe a bit... in poor taste. But if it's already a beater then sure why not.
Given the amount of stuff you buy and sell (we're all guilty), surely you do run the risk of modding a vintage piece just to end up not 'bonding' with it and then end up a) losing money on it and b) doing permanent 'damage' to the piece that any subsequent owner may despise?

But they are just wood with strings on and magnets in at the end of the day.
A lot of my buying and selling is either for self-entertainment or, during our lockdowns here in the UK, a way to make a small bit of money with what knowledge I have with gear (I wasn't allowed to work for 9 months out of the last 12!).

Oh, I certainly wouldn't be modifying anything like this until I'd given it due time and settled on it being a 'keeper' - I have some sense of responsibility at least. I had every intention of modifying my '73 Mustang when I got it but I've grown to love the things I thought I'd dislike about it so have left it alone and play the bastard thing
Mate... I have literally gone through 8 guitars in the past 4 months just to end up where I started :whistle: so I feel you on that one.

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by invisible man » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:26 pm

I read somewhere, probably a thread on here, that a dirty secret of the vintage market is a lot of vintage refins are hiding repaired butchery from the dark times. I don’t remember the source, kind of general and unprovable anyway, but I could imagine it to be true. I’d imagine there were a lot of Floyd Rose, Van Halen stripe paint, super-strat-ification going on in the 80s which have been undone and covered with refins in desirable colors.
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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by gishuk » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:54 am

Thought I'd come back to this thread as I've been having ideas about putting some Curtis Novak PAF sized wide range humbuckers that I have sitting around (as you do) into the 64 Mustang I got from Johnny.

Image

Its not an all original guitar anyway, the neck, body and trem are original, the rest isn't. So it wouldn't be modifying a guitar that is collector grade or historical artifact or however you may want to think of it and I'm skilled enough to be able to do the work neatly, no chisel hack job. But I'm still a bit torn as to is this is sacrilegious to cut into old wood?

Still mulling it over at this point, just thinking out loud really.

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by JSett » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:25 am

gishuk wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:54 am
Thought I'd come back to this thread as I've been having ideas about putting some Curtis Novak PAF sized wide range humbuckers that I have sitting around (as you do) into the 64 Mustang I got from Johnny.

Image

Its not an all original guitar anyway, the neck, body and trem are original, the rest isn't. So it wouldn't be modifying a guitar that is collector grade or historical artifact or however you may want to think of it and I'm skilled enough to be able to do the work neatly, no chisel hack job. But I'm still a bit torn as to is this is sacrilegious to cut into old wood?

Still mulling it over at this point, just thinking out loud really.
I'm pretty sure someone has used some body filler under there already so it's already had some 'work' done to it. Considering its life so far I think a neat rout for some Humbuckers is the least of its worries.
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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by Laurie-on-Laurie » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:43 am

The likes of Leo Fender knew their guitars were pieces of wood, and made so that once the frets were worn, you'd buy a new neck and bolt it on, instead of re-fretting the instrument ...

That said, I'm a sucker for keeping things original. Though, my '89 Strat has Sunbear pickups and totally new electronics ... I had the Strat for £400, a good few years ago, and it plays great. Do I worry about it not being original? Sometimes. Do I really care? No.

You've got to make them your own. They're made to be played, not hung on the wall. If you're afraid of playing it, pass it on. Didn't Rory Gallagher refuse a new Strat from a Fender endorsement because he loved the one he played?

Sometimes, it all comes down to money, and I'm on minimum wage, so I love the battered guitars. If you're a millionaire, rock on!

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by marqueemoon » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:20 am

BeeTL wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:18 pm
Resto-modding a neglected husk is a noble undertaking. Not everything needs to be bone stock.
I agree with this.

Some but definitely not all vintage guitars have an undeniable vibe. If you’re after that but want specific alt pickups or other mods and you can find something with a shitty refin that’d been routed with a butter knife go nuts.

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by gishuk » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:07 pm

Well I may have ordered a pickguard so I guess this will be happening in a couple of weeks when that arrives and when I figure out how to wire Mustang switches with shielded wire PAF style pickups....

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by fuzzjunkie » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:43 pm

Once a vintage instrument has been altered, there’s not much you can do to increase its value back to a stock vintage instrument level outside of becoming really famous and it’s a featured piece. Then the sky’s the limit.

Like that Kurt Cobain Mustang. Or one of SRV or Clapton’s partscasters.

Of course you can do worse by it, and risk winding up in the “Why did they do this thing…” thread.

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by garyfanclub » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:45 pm

Basically, I'll never endorse someone taking something pristine and putting it under the knife. If it's been that way for 50+ years, why does it need to irrevocably change now? (e.g. routing a mint '67 Telecaster for a Fralin humbucker in the neck.) Of course, if we're swapping pots/pickups, and it's reversible, whatever. Some of the stuff used wasn't always the greatest anyhow (I'm looking at you 70s Fender).

That said, if it was chopped up (read: more than just refinned, e.g. 70s strat that got Floyd'd) 30-40 years ago or whatever, and the guitar's seen some serious battle - go nuts (within reason and good taste).

Anyhow this is totally arbitrary, but as someone who owns a few vintage guitars, I bought them for what they are, both for how they play/sound and for what they represent of the era they're from. If I wanted a different vibe, I'd sell and get something else.

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by blackbox » Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:59 am

The original vintage craze was fueled originally by one major factor: the vintage instruments were just far superior to the 70s and 80s guitars. Gradually, this began to include collector value. Now, imo, it's basically all collector value. Vintage instruments are no longer far superior to modern guitars. There's really no reason to waste money buying a vintage guitar just to mod it (which will cause it to lose value), unless you just really want to say it's a vintage guitar (which I understand). In my personal experience, if you just want a solid playable instrument that sounds great, you're a lot better off with any off-the-shelf AV65 than risking diving into the vintage market (which has more lemons than people tend to admit).

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Re: The morals of modifying vintage instruments in 2021

Post by mgeek » Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:26 am

garyfanclub wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:45 pm

Anyhow this is totally arbitrary, but as someone who owns a few vintage guitars, I bought them for what they are, both for how they play/sound and for what they represent of the era they're from. If I wanted a different vibe, I'd sell and get something else.
There's a lot to be said for this attitude imo. (incoming rant not directed at anyone in particular, just a general thing...)

Guitarists are always chasing something when it comes to instruments, and personally I think the 'if i do x modification to x instrument, i will have my one excalibur that I will take to the grave' angle is wishful thinking.

Tastes change, imo theres a damn strong chance in 8 years or something when you see another great guitar you *must* own, or the boiler blows up, or you need a new car, or are moving to another country you'll be sat there on ebay typing 'Neck position neatly routed for a humbucker er... some time in the seventies, back when people did this kind of mad thing'.

in my opinion ;)

Anyway as is always the case with vintage Fenders, they are modular and there are thousands of pre-dicked about with ones. It just makes better financial sense to work with one of those than cost yourself money

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