How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Embenny » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:45 pm

This is a question I've been struggling with lately.

I'm lucky enough to own a few vintage Fenders. All are "players" and none are Songbird Museum pieces. Most have various levels of refinishing/replaced parts that happened prior to my ownership.

I also have reached a point where I'm annoyed enough by 60Hz hum that I play my noisy guitars much less than my noiseless ones. As a result, I don't play my vintage guitars as much as I used to, despite the fact that I adore the way they feel and play.

Take my '62 Jag, for example. It's a refin. Through some internet sleuthing, I found out, after acquiring it, that the pickups were rewound by Lindy Fralin.

So, the solder joints aren't original, and even the coil windings, the real functional soul of the pickups, are non-original. Would it be blasphemy to put them somewhere safe and pop in some Kinmans?

Part of me has worshipped "vintageness" for so many years that the idea makes me a bit queasy. But realistically, I know that swapping the pickups makes absolutely no difference to the originality or value of the instrument because I can just pop the (rewound) originals back in at any time.

I'd certainly use it more if I did.

But then, what if a guitar has the original pickups, but other things have been swapped like tuners with re-drilled holes or pots that died before it came to you? Would you disturb an original solder joint to make that guitar more functional, or preserve what you could, despite it not being a museum showpiece?

My vintage guitars are my favorites to play, feel, look at, and even listen to in a practice setting, but for any kind of recording or gigging, I find no reason to reach for a guitar that pollutes a track with noise when I have nice guitars I could choose instead that won't do that.

I'm interested to hear people's opinions on this. It sort of gets into the nebulous concept of stewardship of vintage instruments, though of course it's nothing like parting out or routing or stripping an original finish. Still, it's "de-vintage-izing" the guitar and has a bigger impact on the tone of the instrument than any other mod you could make, so I'd like to pick people's brains here.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
countertext
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 4142
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:25 pm
Location: Tacoma

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by countertext » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:56 pm

If the pickups have already been removed before, there’s no reason not to put in the pickups you prefer. If there’s no routing of the body or cutting of the guard, and you keep the original pickups with the guitar, why not? You can return it to at least as “original” as it is now just by putting the old pickups back in when you decide to move it on.

User avatar
gishuk
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1677
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:57 am
Location: Devon, UK

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by gishuk » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:57 pm

Exactly, its a totally reversible thing so as long as its not chiseling out a space for a battery to run EMGs or something I don't see why it would be an issue at all.

Personally I think that if the pickups are the thing that stops you enjoying that instrument, then go for it and swop them out. No point having a nice vintage guitar if you dont play it.

User avatar
HNB
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 13513
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 7:55 am
Location: Puyallup, Washington
Contact:

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by HNB » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:30 pm

gishuk wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:57 pm
No point having a nice vintage guitar if you dont play it.
I think the same thing. You can always put it back if you change your mind.
Christopher
Lilith Guitars

User avatar
Gavanti
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1712
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:31 pm
Location: Des Noise, Idohiowa
Contact:

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Gavanti » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:42 pm

Absolutely. Swap in the ones you like, and save the originals for down the road if you sell the guitar.

User avatar
Surfysonic
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:22 pm
Location: Walkersville, MD
Contact:

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Surfysonic » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:39 pm

Totally agree with what everyone has mentioned. Go for it! 8)

Interesting about the rewound Fralin pickups - was that in the blue sparkle '62?
The doofus formerly known as Snorre...

User avatar
PorkyPrimeCut
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 24464
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Leipzig
Contact:

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:42 pm

There's your answer :)

I had a similar dilemma with one of my guitars - the stock bridge was slightly rattly and possibly the reason It kept dropping out of tune. After some sensible advice I changed the bridge to a Gretsch bar bridge & the rattle & tuning issues disappeared. It sustains more now too, I think. A completely reversible mod.

I can't imagine owning a 62' Jaguar & not playing the hell out of it.
You think you can't, you wish you could, I know you can, I wish you would. Slip inside this house as you pass by.

Singlebladepickup
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2831
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:12 am
Location: U.S. of fuckin' A.

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Singlebladepickup » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:45 am

Man, what about those sweet vintage original solder points?

User avatar
andy_tchp
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8010
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:36 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by andy_tchp » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:29 am

Singlebladepickup wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:45 am
Man, what about those sweet vintage original solder points?
mbene085 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:45 pm
So, the solder joints aren't original, and even the coil windings, the real functional soul of the pickups, are non-original.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.

Singlebladepickup
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2831
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:12 am
Location: U.S. of fuckin' A.

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Singlebladepickup » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:43 am

Oops. I'll show myself out

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Embenny » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:33 am

Thanks for the input, everyone. I guess I'm not shocked that people here are supportive of this, since it's reversible and no harm comes to the instrument. I guess I spent so many years fetishizing vintage pickups before I even owned any that the idea of uninstalling vintage pickups seemed like some sort of violation of the instrument.
Surfysonic wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:39 pm
Totally agree with what everyone has mentioned. Go for it! 8)

Interesting about the rewound Fralin pickups - was that in the blue sparkle '62?
Yep, that's the one! They're actually amazing sounding pickups, my favourite Jaguar pickups I own, but I'm down to a situation where my vintage guitars are the only true single coils I own, and I'm using them less and less because I'm just so annoyed by the noise.

Come to think of it, since we're on a theme of swapping pickups in refinished instruments, maybe I'll stick them in my '65 refin Jag, unless the Kinman experiment works out so well that I feel the urge to put some in that one as well.
PorkyPrimeCut wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:42 pm
I can't imagine owning a 62' Jaguar & not playing the hell out of it.
That's just the thing, that guitar is basically the culmination of everything I've ever wanted and desired in an electric guitar, minus the hum. I keep trying to convince myself that the hum is part of the experience, but the reality is that when I want to play or record music, I don't want a random note droning in the background. I play a bunch of instruments and the electric guitar is the only one where people try to convince themselves and others that an uncontrolled drone note of varying volume should just be ignored and accepted.

I noticed that I've been picking up my much cheaper and less inspiring guitars more often than the '62 recently, and it's because of the noise.

It's also done my head in a bit, since I've been a Fender/"single coil tone" guy my entire life. I just prefer bright, chimey pickups, but the reality is that, in 2020, we have tons of excellent pickup designs that can get those types of tones without the noise. My other guitars are loaded with things like split coils, Z-coils, stacked designs, firebirds and filtertrons, and they all manage to get really interesting tones without the hum.

Kinman is the only game in town for noiseless pickups in a Jaguar format, but the interesting thing is that I've never found a single review of them on OSG or any other forum, and there's nothing on Youtube. As far as I can tell, I might be the first person to ever order them, or at least the first person to consider mentioning them on the internet. It feels like a bit of a gamble in that sense, but Kinman pickups are so well-reputed that it doesn't seem all that risky. Their strat pickups are extremely well-established, and their Jag pickups are just three of their strat models in a Jaguar cover with a nonferrous claw so that it doesn't interfere with their design's magnetic field.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
bterry
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1351
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:53 am

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by bterry » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:07 am

One of the joys of owning non-original vintage gear is you can fell guilt-free about most mods.

Go for it, just save the OGs for later/next owner, etc. What the point of having player-grade vintage if you don’t enjoy playing it? :)

User avatar
Surfysonic
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:22 pm
Location: Walkersville, MD
Contact:

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Surfysonic » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:39 pm

Interesting! I didn't remember that about the pickups (or missed it entirely, heh) when I bought that guitar from Olivia's Vintage Guitars off of eBay back in 2017 before we did our trade. I was looking in my purchase history on eBay but sadly they only go back as far as 2018.
The doofus formerly known as Snorre...

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:04 pm

I couldn't bring myself to do it to my Lead, so I sold that guitar instead.

I built that Bullet, and I kept the original pickups. They sound wonderful, actually, but noisy. If I sell that guitar- and I might- I'll put the original pickups back in.

I hear you, though. I am done with 60 cycle hum and buzz. I'm about to buy an Ilitch guard for my Legacy to go with those Wilde Microcoils, even they are too loud for me.

But I won't own any other guitar with single coils that I can't remove the hum from (like the Lead).
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: How heretical is it to swap pickups in a vintage Fender?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:30 pm

And I did buy the Ilitch backplate to use with the Microcoils. I'll be sure to update.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

Post Reply