Convince me to make the leap to flats

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Arc
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Re: Convince me to make the leap to flats

Post by Arc » Tue May 25, 2021 9:24 pm

Long time flats aficionado here. Recently I went back to rounds and I don’t regret it.
Flats are great for the absence of string noise and for the feeling of increased tension. However they sound dull even on a Jaguar, albeit very percussive. Personally I think that round wounds offer more in terms of sonic complexity, you can always dial back some trebles, whereas with flats you don’t have certain frequencies and it is more difficult to add than to take away.
People claim that fender offsets came with flats, but my research on 1958-1969 fender catalogs show that some sort of roller wound were fitted. They were “smooth nickel wrap”, 12-52. Therefore I would go with either thomastik bebop (thin wire wrap, very smooth, up to 12s they have plain Gs) or GHS nickel rockers that are rollerwound. I’d avoid stainless steel (chromes) or nickel plated steel, and hex core too, but that’s just me.

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Re: Convince me to make the leap to flats

Post by Jaguar018 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:19 am

Sometimes I get all into the idea of flats for a change of pace after reading all the posts from the flatwound fans. Whenever I try them I always end up being a bit underwhelmed. If you really want to commit to it, I think you have to give your ears (more than your fingers) time to adjust to the different sound dynamics.

It's one of those things where I get why people like them and get cool sounds, but I'm not really beholden to any particular era of music, so I don't need that vintage sound anymore than other classic rawk tones.

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Tele295
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Re: Convince me to make the leap to flats

Post by Tele295 » Thu May 27, 2021 7:25 am

Jaguar018 wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 10:19 am
Sometimes I get all into the idea of flats for a change of pace after reading all the posts from the flatwound fans. Whenever I try them I always end up being a bit underwhelmed. If you really want to commit to it, I think you have to give your ears (more than your fingers) time to adjust to the different sound dynamics.

It's one of those things where I get why people like them and get cool sounds, but I'm not really beholden to any particular era of music, so I don't need that vintage sound anymore than other classic rawk tones.
That’s what I’m concerned about too. I’m not sure I know enough about what I’m shooting for in terms of a vintage flat wound JM sound. Are there any good recorded examples?
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Jaguar018
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Re: Convince me to make the leap to flats

Post by Jaguar018 » Thu May 27, 2021 7:14 pm

Tele295 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 7:25 am
I’m not sure I know enough about what I’m shooting for in terms of a vintage flat wound JM sound. Are there any good recorded examples?
Yes. There are plenty of great examples, and I’m sure the flat wound fans have some, but there are great recordings with all types of guitars, strings, amps, and studio gear. I don’t think that really means much when it comes to YOU. You just have to play them for yourself and see what you think. Since you’re not really sure what you’re going for, keep an open mind, but don’t sweat it too much if you go back to ‘regular’ strings.

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Arc
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Re: Convince me to make the leap to flats

Post by Arc » Thu May 27, 2021 8:03 pm

I can tell you that playing flats is an acquired taste. If your attempts start with a bright offset, then you’d acquire it quite easily, because the guitar retains some clarity. I kept flats for 10 years without even thinking about going back. Until I did. God only knows how much I missed the harmonic sparkle that only rounds have.
Anyway, cheap enough mod to try

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Re: Convince me to make the leap to flats

Post by Liquitone » Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:50 am

It also depends on the guitar and different brands of strings. I don't regret going flats at all and love Thomastik jazz swings on my jazzmaster. Even the plain string seem to sound different to my ears. After breaking a high E or B and not having spares I found other plain steels lacking in harmonics. No idea why, but it may be the brass plating. Having a wound G does affect playing style, and starting to do more sliding instead of bending notes.
On my Strat however I'm considering going back to GHS pure nickel rollerwounds. It's too much of a hendrixy blues rock machine so want it to be able to sound mean and bend the G 1and a half/2 notes easily. On the strat I also run into the problems of the low E string of the jazz swings being so long I can't properly string it without having way too many windings around the tuninghead.
On bass I noticed a huge difference between D'addario chrome flats and Thomastic flats. Roundwounds on bass make me feel like I suddenly landed a job in construction...
The pure nickel Thomastiks weirdly sound way brighter and harmonically complex than the D'addario's. The tension is also way different. The D'addario chromes felt really sluggish, while with the Thomastics I can easily bend the strings a la Black Sabbath NIB, and use vibrato on the sustained notes.
To surmise. I think for me pure nickel is a huge part of the equation, and GHS nickel rockers rollerwounds have the best of both worlds on my strat, while I love Thomastik pure nickel flats on Jazzmaster and bassguitar.

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Re: Convince me to make the leap to flats

Post by 46346 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:53 pm

i don't think of it as a leap, for me it's one of the cheapest and easiest mod or experiments.

i have more than one guitar, though, so that makes it a no-brainer.

that L-series JM is a fine candidate for the experiment. if you don't have any gigs coming up,
spend the $25 and an hour of your time... it's really not a leap!

this is how i spent much of my pandemic - trying different strings, tunings, picks.
all the affordable stuff, since there were so few paying gigs.
Cat Museum, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Dream Apes, The Cooling Time, Kind Hearts and Coronets, Quarks

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Re: Convince me to make the leap to flats

Post by Pacafeliz » Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:02 am

I tried but they never felt right to me, on guitar and/or on bass.
I need the string sizz noise... and feel.
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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