The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by Jaded » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:26 pm

Well i won the Aria! £135 total. Bargain IMO, it arrived the other day and i just got round to putting some .12's on it. Sounds great, quite similar to a Jag. Love the trem! Though it is stiffer than the AVRI trems, might see if you can swap in a softer spring. Also need to shorten the arm (it's a repro so i dont mind hacking it up).

Had to work on the wiring a little, a ground had come loose at the bass boost and the switch had gone a bit dodgy. Attached the new switch (it's a little deep so i'll need to find a small cheap box type) and it's feeling really solid now. Might need a small turn on the truss rod once it settles into the heavier strings but other than that :-*

Image

Now i just need to get saving so i can buy one of Mikethemods, which he's refinishing for me too. How do the different pickups compare?

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by Shorty » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:33 pm

Not bad! This is a guitar I'd definitely would like to build from scratch. That sunburst looks pretty damn clean!

Also I noticed the trem on mine is stiff too even though I used a jaguar/jazzmaster spring. I even cut some of the length down.
I like to build s***!

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by Spellcaster » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:25 pm

Spellcaster wrote:If anybody's in need of a vibrato bar for one of these, there's an eBay seller called "ez-pz=parts" that's selling a nice looking reproduction. He's got an auction going right now, and there are four left....

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/261098253942?ssP ... 1423.l2649
I just received my new arm and it's not really right. The shape (curve) is okay, and the tip appears to be correct, but it's huge......It sits almost 2 1/2" off the face of the guitar, which is wrong. I owned an identical guitar, branded Toledo, in the early 70's, and the arm sat at a more reasonable height, similar to a Strat.

Image

Image

The cost of Canadian postage with tracking makes it impractical for me to send this back. I'm hoping that I can find a machinist to cut the threaded side shorter and extend the thread closer to the bend. If I can get that accomplished, I assume I could probably do the necessary bending to the long side of the arm in a vice.

I just felt obligated to share this information. I was the one who originally mentioned this seller and these parts in this thread, and I thought it was appropriate to warn others up front what to expect. The eBay seller, ezpz-parts, isn't running an auction for this part right now, but since there were four units still available when the last auction ended, I expect this to show up again on eBay. It's a buyer-beware situation.
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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by TchikiSteph » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:17 am

Jaded wrote:Well i won the Aria! £135 total. Bargain IMO, it arrived the other day and i just got round to putting some .12's on it. Sounds great, quite similar to a Jag. Love the trem! Though it is stiffer than the AVRI trems, might see if you can swap in a softer spring. Also need to shorten the arm (it's a repro so i dont mind hacking it up).

Had to work on the wiring a little, a ground had come loose at the bass boost and the switch had gone a bit dodgy. Attached the new switch (it's a little deep so i'll need to find a small cheap box type) and it's feeling really solid now. Might need a small turn on the truss rod once it settles into the heavier strings but other than that

Image

Now i just need to get saving so i can buy one of Mikethemods, which he's refinishing for me too. How do the different pickups compare?
Nice score ! Great price for the condition ! I wonder how those pickups sound compared to the trapezoid ones.
Spellcaster wrote:
Spellcaster wrote:If anybody's in need of a vibrato bar for one of these, there's an eBay seller called "ez-pz=parts" that's selling a nice looking reproduction. He's got an auction going right now, and there are four left....

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/261098253942?ssP ... 1423.l2649
I just received my new arm and it's not really right. The shape (curve) is okay, and the tip appears to be correct, but it's huge......It sits almost 2 1/2" off the face of the guitar, which is wrong. I owned an identical guitar, branded Toledo, in the early 70's, and the arm sat at a more reasonable height, similar to a Strat.

Image

Image

The cost of Canadian postage with tracking makes it impractical for me to send this back. I'm hoping that I can find a machinist to cut the threaded side shorter and extend the thread closer to the bend. If I can get that accomplished, I assume I could probably do the necessary bending to the long side of the arm in a vice.

I just felt obligated to share this information. I was the one who originally mentioned this seller and these parts in this thread, and I thought it was appropriate to warn others up front what to expect. The eBay seller, ezpz-parts, isn't running an auction for this part right now, but since there were four units still available when the last auction ended, I expect this to show up again on eBay. It's a buyer-beware situation.
Wow ! Indeed thanks for warning, as I was waiting for this ezpz-parts auction to reoccur.
Here's what I got with an original trem-bar:

Image

Image

So indeed you need someone to shorten that threaded end, and then maybe a little bending will do.
I can't figure out why they are selling such monster-bars... :wtf:

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by TchikiSteph » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:41 pm

I tried something yesterday.
As I'm still missing a tremolo arm for one of my 1802s, and just received a staytrem system for my MIJ Jazzmaster.
So I decided to check if the staytrem collet could replace the Matsumoku collet in order to solve that arm issue.
And in fact it nearly does. Nearly.
The collets are very similar, as you'll see on the picture. But the screw threads are inverted.

So, well, I'm still searching for a matsumoku trem arm !


Image

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by UC3 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:57 pm

Image


Hey guys,

I’ve contacted Mike from EZPZ some time ago regarding the Matsumoku tremolo arms and sent him something similar to this. He was very timely in his reply and also very appreciative of the information I sent him. Super-nice guy…

The original threads are an obsolete metric M5 x 0.90 diameter and thread pitch, known as Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS). JIS was intentionally and gradually phased-out beginning in the mid-60’s. The tremolo arm bushing that holds the tremolo arm is tapped as an M5 x 0.90. This obsolete JIS M5 x 0.90 metric threading does not play well with the standard 10-32 threads. One could attempt to re-tap the bushing to match the 10-32 threads of the replacement arm, but I don’t think there would be enough quality thread left inside the bushing to provide a robust connection. Furthermore, the tremolo arm bushing itself attaches to the tremolo fulcrum plate as a left-handed, M10 x 1.25. The M10 x 1.25 is a common metric thread, but the fact that it is left-hand and unique to this tremolo system alone would make one think a little more about doing any re-tap modifications.

The solution would be to begin threading your replacement tremolo arms as M5 x 0.90 thread and pitch because, although the obsolete JIS fasteners are no longer manufactured, the obsolete JIS taps and dies are still available from online tooling suppliers.


In about 1965 or thereabouts, the movement toward some standardization in metric fasteners was well under way, and the JIS** (Japanese Industrial Standards) people were beginning to align themselves with most of the rest of the world in making fasteners that would be interchangeable with the same thread specifications. The DIN*** standards seem to be the ones that were most favored and were adopted as the ISO* standards. As you mentioned, the main shift in the JIS screws was in the change from the previous JIS thread diameter and thread pitch to the now standard ISO specifications. This affected the smaller size fasteners the most, as far as the JIS screws were concerned. The more common sizes of 6 - 1.00, 8 - 1.25, and some others, were not affected.”

Prior to 1967, the Japanese had a unique system of bolt threads, defined under a JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) standard. Most of these bolts were the same as what we now know as a metric thread, but not all of them. In 1967 the Japanese adopted the ISO (International Standards Organization) standard for metric threads, changing the few sizes in their old standard that were different.”
The change from JIS to ISO resulted in some differences to the bolt heads, but the most important change is that the thread pitches for some sizes of bolts changed as well.”
Using a modern ISO metric fastener in place of a JIS fastener will probably cause issues including stripped threads and poorly fastened bits.”

The Old JIS thread diameter of 3mm and pitch of 0.60 became the new ISO M3 x 0.50
The Old JIS thread diameter of 4mm and pitch of 0.75 became the new ISO M4 x 0.70
The Old JIS thread diameter of 5mm and pitch of 0.90 became the new ISO M5 x 0.80
The Old JIS thread diameter of 12mm and pitch of 1.50 became the new ISO M12 x 1.25

*The International System of Units (ISO) in 1960 is metric and was one of many attempts this century to standardize metric bolt sizes internationally. The ISO standards are widely used, and bolt diameters range from 2 to 20mm in three varieties of metric thread pitch: the standard, fine and extra fine varieties.
**There are still JIS fastener standards today; they are just slightly different than the obsolete standards of the 1960’s.
***A further standard, almost identical to JIS is the German DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung - German Institute for Standardization).

Here is an awesome link to a Honda Bulletin from 1967 noting the changes.

http://www.drooartz.com/woad-local/medi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... hreads.pdf

Hope this clears some things up.

Mark

Just for grins... some original ends.
Image
Last edited by UC3 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by TchikiSteph » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:19 pm

Wow ! Amazing.
Thanks a lot for the complete information !
So what was the answer from EZPZ ? Do you know if they're gonna release a new batch of replicas ?
UC3 wrote:Image
Bu the way, no wonder we can't find any original arm if you got them all !

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by TchikiSteph » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:26 pm

TchikiSteph wrote: By the way, no wonder we can't find any original arm if you got them all !
Woops, there was supposed to be a smiley at the end of the sentence. ;)

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by UC3 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:20 am

TS
So what was the answer from EZPZ ? Do you know if they're gonna release a new batch of replicas ?

I don't know what he'll do. Apparently he had a buddy who was a machinist that had just passed away. He may have been the one providing the arms. You could always contact him via eBay and see what he is up to.


By the way, no wonder we can't find any original arm if you got them all !
No worries, years of self-inflicted Matsumoku Acquisition Syndrome at work there. Actually, they all belong to various guitars/guitar projects.


If you can get past the "cash only, local pickup" requirement - you got a chance at one here:

Assorted Whammy Bars - $15 (Western Burbs)
http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/msg/3479994860.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's another shot at the Honda link - didn't seem to work in earlier post.
Honda service bulletin from 1967 (TL #27, June 8, 1967 ):
http://www.drooartz.com/index.php?page=58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good Luck,

Mark

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by Jazzprod » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:14 pm

Jeezzz.. Great write up!

Anyone have a good source for the complete vibrato? Got to get me one of those for my next project!

:w00t:

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by Spellcaster » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:31 pm

Jazzprod wrote:Jeezzz.. Great write up!

Anyone have a good source for the complete vibrato? Got to get me one of those for my next project!
Good luck on that. They seem to be scarce as hen's teeth. I looked for months and finally found one on eBay, complete except for the arm. If memory serves, it was about 160.00 by the time I paid the shipping. It would be nice if someone built a reproduction though.....Mine stays in tune better than a Strat unit, and the roller saddles are a great idea.
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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by sumlin » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:12 am

Hi folks.
I'm still midway through restoring one of these, I've had the body refinished in a greeny blue and it looks lovely and I've had the headstock done matching as well. Looks great.
However, looking at the neck I'm starting to think it's in a bit too poor condition to be workable once I start setting it up so I was hoping you might have some ideas for

a) a reasonably easy to find, off-the-shelf neck that would fit the body/scale and look cool
or
b) anyone who might have a functioning 6-a-side Aria neck kicking around that might want to get rid of.

Once this thing is finished I'll have a pile of spares left over as well, at the moment it's looking like:
4 trapezoid pickups (2 of them are black with white surround and 2 are white with black)
1 modified scratchplate (has 2 trapezoid holes and a humbucker hole)
2 sets of the original tuners
1 spare neck with a great big crack in it
Another spare neck that's almost fretless
Maybe a spare sunburst body
Maybe a spare 'Motorik' trem and brudge minus saddles.

Pics soon...

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by sumlin » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:14 am

Spellcaster wrote:These guitars are 25" scale so changing necks isn't an option.
Really?

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by sumlin » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:53 pm

Yeahhhhhh!

Image

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Re: The ARIA 1802t/1803t - EPIPHONE ET 270 DATABASE

Post by Spellcaster » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:02 pm

That's a great color, Sumlin!
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