Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

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dudecoolhat
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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by dudecoolhat » Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:21 am

I've tried the yellow ebay spring and it just didn't fit over the stock set nut and I do not have access to a drill press to make it fit. I just ordered this spring set from allparts (linked below), I'll report back if it works. Probably the best course of action would be what someone mentioned above and find a different set nut for the yellow spring so you don't have to drill out the spring, that's going to be my plan b if the allparts spring is too weak.

BP-0427-010 SPRING SET FOR JAGUAR® JAZZMASTER

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by molul » Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:43 am

Sorry for the hate, but it's just embarrassing that customers have to find and try springs over the internet for a brand new vibrato. Fender could make a great move for their image by quickly replacing this spring for free to everyone who's bought the panorama, yet they're acting like ignoring the issue for months.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ryanthellama » Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:08 pm

dudecoolhat wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:21 am
I've tried the yellow ebay spring and it just didn't fit over the stock set nut and I do not have access to a drill press to make it fit. I just ordered this spring set from allparts (linked below), I'll report back if it works. Probably the best course of action would be what someone mentioned above and find a different set nut for the yellow spring so you don't have to drill out the spring, that's going to be my plan b if the allparts spring is too weak.
Has anyone had any luck finding a nut that works with the yellow spring? I’ve been looking around hardware stores near me but haven’t found something suitable yet.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by dudecoolhat » Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:54 pm

ryanthellama wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:08 pm

Has anyone had any luck finding a nut that works with the yellow spring? I’ve been looking around hardware stores near me but haven’t found something suitable yet.
I did a bunch of digging through the fastener bins at Ace Hardware yesterday. I was able to find the right piece in the "posts with screws" bin. For some reason the steel post just barely didn't fit over the spring tension screw but the aluminum one fit snugly. I currently have it in my guitar with the yellow spring. One problem I'm having now is since the nut doesn't fit snugly with the inner diameter of the spring, I have to take off the whole trem system to adjust the spring tension, otherwise the nut and spring just rotate with the screw. A couple dots of removable loctite should keep it snug but that will have to wait until I feel like taking this thing off again.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by tommyshell » Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:40 am

Hi folks,

Not sure if anyone's already posted this (sorry if you have, I hadn't seen it) but I took the spring out of my Panorama and measured the dimensions:

Outer Diameter 15.92mm (0.627”)
(Pocket Inner Diameter for spring to sit inside: 16.01mm, any bigger OD than this won’t fit properly)
Inner Diameter 11.68mm (0.460”)
Wire Diameter 2.02mm (0.080”)
Length 24.6mm (0.969”)
6 turns (inc top and bottom) - is this the same as number of "active" coils I see on spring manufacturer websites?

Worth mentioning that the nut is firmly stuck to the spring, I couldn't prise it off by hand.

FWIW I can compress the spring about 5mm by hand between my forefinger and thumb, not useful for the rest of you but just my personal reference to test other springs against it.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by tommyshell » Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:43 am

dudecoolhat wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:21 am
I've tried the yellow ebay spring and it just didn't fit over the stock set nut and I do not have access to a drill press to make it fit. I just ordered this spring set from allparts (linked below), I'll report back if it works. Probably the best course of action would be what someone mentioned above and find a different set nut for the yellow spring so you don't have to drill out the spring, that's going to be my plan b if the allparts spring is too weak.

BP-0427-010 SPRING SET FOR JAGUAR® JAZZMASTER
P.S. I've ordered one of these to try, thanks for the tip!

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by RoséBear » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:51 pm

My yellow springs should be coming in soon. I saw that Ryan from 60 cycle hum said he ended up using washers on his panorama instead of drilling out the spring.

Anyone have any luck tracking down a new spindle to fit the yellow spring?

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Vendetagainst » Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:42 pm

RoséBear wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:51 pm
My yellow springs should be coming in soon. I saw that Ryan from 60 cycle hum said he ended up using washers on his panorama instead of drilling out the spring.

Anyone have any luck tracking down a new spindle to fit the yellow spring?
I also bought the yellow spring, and what I was planning to do was go to a custom spring shop (there's a few of them in PDX), take both the yellow and Fender springs, and say "I want something with the dimensions of the Fender spring but the spring constant of the yellow spring." Will let y'all know how that goes.

Also y'all somewhat related but two weeks ago Halon dropped a post on their Insta showing a new design of their JM trem with over an octave drop, and they say it's coming soon... I already have the Panorama and probs won't get it unless it offers a clear advantage, but the larger range is enticing to my noise rock/80s metal heart…

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ryanthellama » Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:23 pm

RoséBear wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:51 pm
I saw that Ryan from 60 cycle hum said he ended up using washers on his panorama instead of drilling out the spring.
I can’t quite picture what he means by this. Anyone know how this would work?

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by deastman » Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:41 pm

Hi all, I’m new here. I just got my AMII Dark Night, which is my very first Jazzmaster. I was pretty disappointed to learn about the spring issues. I’ve seen the videos and ordered a yellow spring just in case, although I guess I’ll probably just stick with 9’s for now.

I called a local spring manufacturer:
American Precision Spring Corp.
And spoke to them about matching the inner diameter of the Panorama spring with the compression ratio of the eBay yellow spring. They said that they could do that, but that it wouldn’t be cost effective in small quantities. For 100-200 springs, the cost would essentially be their setup costs, which are about $1000 USD. I’m not interested in sinking that kind of money and going into the guitar parts business. However, it’s kind of discouraging to know that Fender could solve this problem themselves for a couple grand, but have not taken action to do so.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by tammyw » Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:06 pm

ryanthellama wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:23 pm
RoséBear wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:51 pm
I saw that Ryan from 60 cycle hum said he ended up using washers on his panorama instead of drilling out the spring.
I can’t quite picture what he means by this. Anyone know how this would work?
I think he means you'd slide a couple big washers (was it 7/16" or 1/2" I.D?) on to the nut before the spring, so the spring would sit up higher where the tapered nut is narrower.

I tried some other die springs, and I guess they were functional with 11's, but I wasn't really satisfied with it.

Actually, after all the wailing I've done on the arm, I don't think I like the collet on these either. It's possible to push the arm in too far, and then the end of the arm can gouge the bottom of the cavity. When the arm isn't pushed in too far, you can still slam the collet block into the bottom of the cavity. There's quite a bit of play between the arm and the collet now, too. And the arm itself flexes more than I'd like. It makes me want to build a new collet block and arm all together, but it's a long way down on my list of projects.

For now I'm planning to go back to the stock spring and set it up with super light strings, it's fine like that and I like light strings.
All pain and troubles melted away like lemon drops beyond the contrails across the sky.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Vendetagainst » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:53 am

deastman wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:41 pm
Hi all, I’m new here. I just got my AMII Dark Night, which is my very first Jazzmaster. I was pretty disappointed to learn about the spring issues. I’ve seen the videos and ordered a yellow spring just in case, although I guess I’ll probably just stick with 9’s for now.

I called a local spring manufacturer:
American Precision Spring Corp.
And spoke to them about matching the inner diameter of the Panorama spring with the compression ratio of the eBay yellow spring. They said that they could do that, but that it wouldn’t be cost effective in small quantities. For 100-200 springs, the cost would essentially be their setup costs, which are about $1000 USD. I’m not interested in sinking that kind of money and going into the guitar parts business. However, it’s kind of discouraging to know that Fender could solve this problem themselves for a couple grand, but have not taken action to do so.
Ah damn, that really sucks :/ Unfortunate that Fender won't help out here. I'll still try my local spring manufacturer in PDX and see what they have to say about it. Should we start a petition for Fender to provide working springs for the Panorama? Probs won't do much but it may be worth a shot.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by molul » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:32 am

Vendetagainst wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:53 am
deastman wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:41 pm
Hi all, I’m new here. I just got my AMII Dark Night, which is my very first Jazzmaster. I was pretty disappointed to learn about the spring issues. I’ve seen the videos and ordered a yellow spring just in case, although I guess I’ll probably just stick with 9’s for now.

I called a local spring manufacturer:
American Precision Spring Corp.
And spoke to them about matching the inner diameter of the Panorama spring with the compression ratio of the eBay yellow spring. They said that they could do that, but that it wouldn’t be cost effective in small quantities. For 100-200 springs, the cost would essentially be their setup costs, which are about $1000 USD. I’m not interested in sinking that kind of money and going into the guitar parts business. However, it’s kind of discouraging to know that Fender could solve this problem themselves for a couple grand, but have not taken action to do so.
Ah damn, that really sucks :/ Unfortunate that Fender won't help out here. I'll still try my local spring manufacturer in PDX and see what they have to say about it. Should we start a petition for Fender to provide working springs for the Panorama? Probs won't do much but it may be worth a shot.
I would sign it even though I'm not planning on getting one. I just find fair that this reaches some music magazines xD

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by deastman » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

Image
Vendetagainst wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:53 am
deastman wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:41 pm
Hi all, I’m new here. I just got my AMII Dark Night, which is my very first Jazzmaster. I was pretty disappointed to learn about the spring issues. I’ve seen the videos and ordered a yellow spring just in case, although I guess I’ll probably just stick with 9’s for now.

I called a local spring manufacturer:
American Precision Spring Corp.
And spoke to them about matching the inner diameter of the Panorama spring with the compression ratio of the eBay yellow spring. They said that they could do that, but that it wouldn’t be cost effective in small quantities. For 100-200 springs, the cost would essentially be their setup costs, which are about $1000 USD. I’m not interested in sinking that kind of money and going into the guitar parts business. However, it’s kind of discouraging to know that Fender could solve this problem themselves for a couple grand, but have not taken action to do so.
Ah damn, that really sucks :/ Unfortunate that Fender won't help out here. I'll still try my local spring manufacturer in PDX and see what they have to say about it. Should we start a petition for Fender to provide working springs for the Panorama? Probs won't do much but it may be worth a shot.
I really doubt that a petition will result in any meaningful action. A class action lawsuit might force Fender to fix the problem, but rather than manufacture new springs, they would probably solve the problem by swapping out the Panorama for their previous model. Anyway, it’s all speculation about events which will never come to pass.

I think the only possible path forward would be to convince an existing aftermarket parts company that it would be profitable to get new springs manufactured. If anyone knows a good company to deal with, maybe they could organize a group preorder campaign to cover their costs up front.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by molul » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:17 pm

I'm pretty sure a petition won't shake Fender, but the petition being reported by certain online magazines would at least damage their image quite a bit.

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