Fender quotes +/- 10% variability on their DCRs (although the only place you see that mentioned AFAIK is in the FCS Design Guide, where both machine-wound and 'hand-wound' DCRs are "+/- 10% "... so it's possibly more of a 'covering our ass' figure than a true reflection of likely variability). In any case yours are well within spec. DCR will also vary with temperature. All the more reason why their quoting DCR to 2 decimal places is stupid.bankyVee wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:12 pmI got mine as well. A quick heads up; the DC resistance ratings seem to be slightly off for the bridge pu. Mine measured differently than the values given on the package (granted , my voltmeter could be inaccurate)
Neck: 7.14k (marked 7.27k)
Bridge: 6.92k (marked 7.31k)
I will probably install these in my FSR JM to compare/contrast to the old CV JM (PV65s) as well as the JMJM (P90-ish).
J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
- timtam
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Thanks for the clarification. It's within the the +/-10% for DCR. Does anyone know how to measure the inductance?
Just from observations, you can definitely tell these have more copper wire winds than the stock cv or PV65 pickups. Not as many winds as a Novak JM-V.
Just from observations, you can definitely tell these have more copper wire winds than the stock cv or PV65 pickups. Not as many winds as a Novak JM-V.
- andy_tchp
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
How could you 'definitely tell' without unwinding them and counting?
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David McComb, 1987.
- timtam
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Recommended inductance test procedure is the DE-5000 LCR meter or similar meter testing at 100Hz or 120Hz (there are cheaper ones around but with uncertain specs). Although AFAIK Fender has never described exactly how they measure inductance. It's a pity if these pickups don't have inductance figures on the box or the product page like the PV65's do (3.2H, 6.8 kOhms DCR).bankyVee wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:34 pmThanks for the clarification. It's within the the +/-10% for DCR. Does anyone know how to measure the inductance?
Just from observations, you can definitely tell these have more copper wire winds than the stock cv or PV65 pickups. Not as many winds as a Novak JM-V.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHYsQGK5PoY
http://www.planetz.com/wp-content/uploa ... hnique.pdf
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Fender's website lists it as 3.6h for the neck and 3.7h for the bridge.timtam wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:31 pmRecommended inductance test procedure is the DE-5000 LCR meter or similar meter testing at 100Hz or 120Hz (there are cheaper ones around but with uncertain specs). Although AFAIK Fender has never described exactly how they measure inductance. It's a pity if these pickups don't have inductance figures on the box or the product page like the PV65's do (3.2H, 6.8 kOhms DCR).bankyVee wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:34 pmThanks for the clarification. It's within the the +/-10% for DCR. Does anyone know how to measure the inductance?
Just from observations, you can definitely tell these have more copper wire winds than the stock cv or PV65 pickups. Not as many winds as a Novak JM-V.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHYsQGK5PoY
http://www.planetz.com/wp-content/uploa ... hnique.pdf
- timtam
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Ah ... so it does. Not sure what I was looking at earlier today. And in fact I even quoted their inductances earlier in the thread ...SixStringSlinger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:36 amFender's website lists it as 3.6h for the neck and 3.7h for the bridge.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=124057#p1752843
With nominally equal DCRs according to the published specs, and quoted inductances that differ by only 0.1 (too small to have been deliberately designed to be that way), it's a fair assumption that neck and bridge are the same pickup, just with different magnetic polarity (for a RWRP pairing) ... ie just like neck/bridge PV65s are the same.
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Slight tangent: All other things being equal (or near enough), would a higher or lower inductance result in an audible difference?timtam wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:29 amAh ... so it does. Not sure what I was looking at earlier today. And in fact I even quoted their inductances earlier in the thread ...SixStringSlinger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:36 amFender's website lists it as 3.6h for the neck and 3.7h for the bridge.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=124057#p1752843
With nominally equal DCRs according to the published specs, and quoted inductances that differ by only 0.1 (too small to have been deliberately designed to be that way), it's a fair assumption that neck and bridge are the same pickup, just with different magnetic polarity (for a RWRP pairing) ... ie just like neck/bridge PV65s are the same.
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Absolutely. Inductance is the major spec you can measure on a test bench that has a direct correlation to the way a pickup sounds.SixStringSlinger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:45 am
Slight tangent: All other things being equal (or near enough), would a higher or lower inductance result in an audible difference?
When people talk about "hot" pickups with high DC resistance, what they're actually trying to refer to is a high inductance pickup. That's because, if you keep the magnet structure and wire gauge the same, more turns of wire equals more inductance. Higher inductance means higher output and a lower resonant frequency.
But the number of turns of wire isn't the only thing that changes inductance. Wire gauge changes it as well. Changing the polepiece material (e.g. alnico poles vs steel poles vs ceramic poles), and even the polepiece shape (bar/rail vs rod) all affect it.
That's why DCR is a terrible surrogate for inductance. It's not the only spec that matters to the tone of the pickup (the magnetic circuit shapes the attack of the notes, and things like metal baseplates and covers mitigate the high end and Q of the resonant frequency via eddy currents), but it's the single most important spec. If you want a loud pickup with a prominent midrange, you want a high inductance pickup. If you want a quieter pickup with a prominent high end, you want a low inductance pickup.
Edit: typo
Last edited by Embenny on Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- bankyVee
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Thanks for the clarification. So many yt pundits give the shorthand evaluation about having a "hot" pickup in the bridge solely based on DCR but forget to take the type (single, humbucker) or structure. The values can vary wildly from different sets and there is so much more involved with regards to tone.
I can tell from a visual in hand inspection. These pickups are heavier and the windings are wider in the bobbin. I don't have an exact stat but I'd estimate these are anywhere from 25-33% heavier than the stock pickups and PV65s. Granted, some of that mass may be accounted for by the wax potted poles and wire. Novak's have the most visible difference because the copper windings are almost over the edge of the bobbin.
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- marginwalker
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Yep they are grey!sugarandopium wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:24 pmAwesome!!!! Thank you!!!!!
Are the bobbins grey or black? Look grey, either way I’m happy.
Let us know what you think when you get them in.
- andy_tchp
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Perhaps I was too subtle.bankyVee wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:21 amI can tell from a visual in hand inspection. These pickups are heavier and the windings are wider in the bobbin. I don't have an exact stat but I'd estimate these are anywhere from 25-33% heavier than the stock pickups and PV65s. Granted, some of that mass may be accounted for by the wax potted poles and wire. Novak's have the most visible difference because the copper windings are almost over the edge of the bobbin.
That 'visual in hand inspection' assumes the exact same wire type, bobbin spacing, winding techniques and raw materials.
Wire gauge, insulation type (ie formvar/enamel/polyester/nylon/... which also affects the overall wire diameter even when wire is the 'same gauge'), winding pattern and tension on the wire while winding will all play a part in determining where the windings end up compared to the edge of the bobbin.
The 'wire stuff' mentioned above (these things are definitively not all equal) and magnet metallurgy will also come into play regarding the overall weight, which is assuredly the most meaningless metric of an electric guitar pickup (outside any exercises in building ultra lightweight instruments, which is something I can get behind...)
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.
- nashmaster
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
marginwalker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:36 amYep they are grey!sugarandopium wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:24 pmAwesome!!!! Thank you!!!!!
Are the bobbins grey or black? Look grey, either way I’m happy.
Let us know what you think when you get them in.
Have you installed them yet? So curious to hear how they sound!
- sugarandopium
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- marginwalker
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Re: J Mascis signature Jazzmaster pickups
Not yet, they’ll be going in a partsmaster I’m putting together!nashmaster wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:33 pmmarginwalker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:36 amYep they are grey!sugarandopium wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:24 pm
Awesome!!!! Thank you!!!!!
Are the bobbins grey or black? Look grey, either way I’m happy.
Let us know what you think when you get them in.
Have you installed them yet? So curious to hear how they sound!