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bodhi wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:01 am

BTW, anyone have any idea of the comparative stiffness of Fender Vintera springs? They're basically MIM, I believe, but seem to have slightly different features to the Squier ones. Eeg. Pat pend text and at least some have the trem lock, but the collets are screw-in instead of push-in... Or alternatively these are the same as Classic Player trems (Korea?), which have the same kind of spring as the basic Fenders?

Local market has slim pickings right now, so looking on ebay pre-emptively for some replacements...

The Vintera trem is indeed the Korean-made Classic Player trem (0076232049).

bodhi wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:01 am

BTW, anyone have any idea of the comparative stiffness of Fender Vintera springs?

Someone might know this better than me, but I believe the Vintera trem units are the same as the Classic Player ones. If I remember correctly, I checked the spring from my CP Jag back when I got my Panorama and it worked properly with it. I actually have a Panorama on the way to install in that Jag once it comes back from a little repair work, so I can find out for sure in a couple weeks. I don’t have full proof that all import Fender springs work, but I think it’s really just the American springs that aren’t stiff enough.

ryanthellama wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:38 am

bodhi wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:01 am

BTW, anyone have any idea of the comparative stiffness of Fender Vintera springs?

Someone might know this better than me, but I believe the Vintera trem units are the same as the Classic Player ones. If I remember correctly, I checked the spring from my CP Jag back when I got my Panorama and it worked properly with it. I actually have a Panorama on the way to install in that Jag once it comes back from a little repair work, so I can find out for sure in a couple weeks. I don’t have full proof that all import Fender springs work, but I think it’s really just the American springs that aren’t stiff enough.

Actually my Panorama got delivered to work today, and I have the Vintera trem on the way... Won't be able to verify in a while since I'm traveling right now, but can return to this in about a week or two. I'm also eyeing a Squier trem if this all doesn't seem to work out, but I'll let everyone know.

bodhi wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:15 pm

Actually my Panorama got delivered to work today, and I have the Vintera trem on the way... Won't be able to verify in a while since I'm traveling right now, but can return to this in about a week or two. I'm also eyeing a Squier trem if this all doesn't seem to work out, but I'll let everyone know.

Squiers definitely work! I’ve tried that myself. Interested to hear if the Vintera does indeed work too!

So, without actually installing them, I have the Panorama (new ootb) and the Vintera (used) trem in my hands, and just by pressing down with my fingers I can tell that the Vintera is less stiff than the Panorama... Not sure if that's just from use or if it implies that the Panorama spring might be stiffer than previously? ... I have an unused Mastery at home for a project, and a barely used AVRI to compare these with, and then another Mastery incoming, so I guess I'll be able to share some unscientific comparisons when I finally get to move back into the apartment in a week or so.

Like many other things with large scale productions, I wonder if this is just individual variation between items. Of course, it's very possible that f.e. Mastery might have a tighter specification than Fender for what they find acceptable as a part.

bodhi wrote: ↑

Tue May 03, 2022 3:24 am

So, without actually installing them, I have the Panorama (new ootb) and the Vintera (used) trem in my hands, and just by pressing down with my fingers I can tell that the Vintera is less stiff than the Panorama... Not sure if that's just from use or if it implies that the Panorama spring might be stiffer than previously? ... I have an unused Mastery at home for a project, and a barely used AVRI to compare these with, and then another Mastery incoming, so I guess I'll be able to share some unscientific comparisons when I finally get to move back into the apartment in a week or so.

Like many other things with large scale productions, I wonder if this is just individual variation between items. Of course, it's very possible that f.e. Mastery might have a tighter specification than Fender for what they find acceptable as a part.

My understanding is the Mastery is a much stiffer spring and will solve the issue. I went through most of the fender springs and it was still an issue with 11s. I asked for someone to take the measurements of the mastery spring but no one did. I was going to have springs made and send them out for postage. I ultimately returned my Am pro II and picked up a used 2016 FCS ‘58 jazzmaster.

bodhi wrote: ↑

Tue May 03, 2022 3:24 am

So, without actually installing them, I have the Panorama (new ootb) and the Vintera (used) trem in my hands, and just by pressing down with my fingers I can tell that the Vintera is less stiff than the Panorama... Not sure if that's just from use or if it implies that the Panorama spring might be stiffer than previously? ... I have an unused Mastery at home for a project, and a barely used AVRI to compare these with, and then another Mastery incoming, so I guess I'll be able to share some unscientific comparisons when I finally get to move back into the apartment in a week or so.

I have a Panorama taken from an Am Pro II as well as a Panorama I just got in from the ones being sold individually, so I might take a look now and compare if they did actually do anything with the spring. My Classic Player Jag is in the shop right now, but once it comes back I’ll compare that spring too. It would be really nice if Fender did boost the stiffness of the Panorama.

If someone can provide measurements there may be an off the shelf valve spring (for engines) available that works out as suitable for this.

And as a bonus you'd be able to call the assembly 'high performance'.

If it helps, I got this: "The spring cup is brass, and the spring itself is actually a bit longer than the Fender item, measuring at 27.1mm compared to the Fender 24.45mm. "

From this article: https://www.homeoftone.co.uk/blogs/news ... t-vibratos

I'll seek for more info.

For those able to make measurements of different springs they own, external dimensions (length, wire diameter) will only really be useful for determining if say two Fender springs are the same item or different. And whether a given spring will fit in the available space. But to understand if two springs actually perform differently, the spring constants (spring rates) will be required. They tell you how stiff the spring is. That is, how much force is required for compress/lengthen the spring by a given amount, in lbs/in, kgf/mm, N/mm, etc.

See some discussions alluding to this by tammyw and the several posts that follow:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=117440&start=195#p1713260

All spring manufacturers specify spring constants, and it is a common high school science experiment to measure them - it requires just a ruler and some known weights (or a force measuring device, like a cheap personal digital luggage weigher). You simply measure the change in spring length (compression or stretch) for a change in force, for at least 3 different lengths/ forces. If you plot absolute weight (force) against absolute length you should get a straight line, the slope of which is your spring constant. Unfortunately no trem spring vendor seems to know anything about the spring constants of the spring makers' springs they sell. Or if they do they don't publish those specs.

They might have figured the spring debacle out.

Link to spring 16/8/25 yellow
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184334360314?var=692025179013

Link to video
https://youtu.be/wNTXt1YFmpA

TheCappy wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 8:06 am

They might have figured the spring debacle out.

Link to spring 16/8/25 yellow
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184334360314?var=692025179013

Link to video
https://youtu.be/wNTXt1YFmpA

So cool that there's a workaround, but I surely hope Fender actually fix the product. You know, it wouldn't be very cool that anyone who buys the Panorama has to learn that they have to buy this separate spring.

molul wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 8:18 am

TheCappy wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 8:06 am

They might have figured the spring debacle out.

Link to spring 16/8/25 yellow
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184334360314?var=692025179013

Link to video
https://youtu.be/wNTXt1YFmpA

So cool that there's a workaround, but I surely hope Fender actually fix the product. You know, it wouldn't be very cool that anyone who buys the Panorama has to learn that they have to buy this separate spring.

Completely agree! This still isn’t a perfect fit. If anyone can get a custom spring mass produced it’s Fender.

Was happy to watch this video and see there is a potential solution out there, though there is the looming “knocking” that was not resolved by the end of the video. Hopefully it was unrelated to the spring.

mrventures wrote: ↑

Fri May 06, 2022 9:20 am

Was happy to watch this video and see there is a potential solution out there, though there is the looming “knocking” that was not resolved by the end of the video. Hopefully it was unrelated to the spring.

It most probably is. That spring steel is digging into the brass. Why he didn’t drill the yellow one out too, I don’t understand. There is a reason they should sit flush onto the plunger.