People are sure upset with the new Indonesian made Fender Standard series guitars what's the deal there?

[GilmourD]

The best defenses of them I have read just say "they would be good with a proper setup" which is the case for almost the entire Squier line.

I would dare say that a proper setup is necessary for everything from the cheapest Squiers right up to the most costly PRS. During my MI retail years there wasn't a single brand new guitar I unboxed that didn't need a few tweaks since they were built somewhere else and likely during a different time of year/season (it was rare to get stuff that wasn't in a warehouse for a little bit of time).

Honestly, the amount of fucks I give about the geographic location of a guitar being built is absolute zero. I've played garbage made in the US and absolute stunners made overseas.

Good is good.

No argument from me. My best guitar was mostly made in China.

There was a way to make this product make sense. And Fender's own guys have acknowledged it. The way was to eliminate the Squier brand altogether and (like Jackson) have everything up and down the line say "Fender" on the headstock regardless of price point and where it's made.

But they didn't want to do that, because so much of their business model is based on getting people to "climb the ladder." If your Affinity says Fender on the headstock, then maybe you won't dutifully climb the ladder when you get your first job, for example. But there was a gap in their catalogue and presumably their market research showed (and the debacle of the anniversary Squiers shows this as well) that, in the current market, there was no persuading consumers to pay more than $500 US for a Squier.

They had the opportunity to take that information and make instruments to an even higher standard than the Squier Contemporary series or Classic Vibes, and still hit a $600 price point while making a lot of money on each guitar. But they didn't do that. Instead they opted to churn out ho-hum guitars with nothing to recommend over their own models that are half the price. It's hard to read their reasoning as anything but contempt for their customers.

And then there's me, ruining all their plans. I've been playing for 30 years and I'm happy to play a Squier whether it's on stage or while recording. As long as it plays to my expectations and sounds good to my ear I'm good to go! Every time I pick up a Classic Vibe, even a beat up one at Guitar Center, all it might need is a tweak to the truss rod and it would be ready to roll.

[distressed]

My complaint is the price. What about them merits costing $200 US more than a Contemporary Strat? More than twice as much as an Affinity?

I don't know until I have a chance to try them in person and compare them to lower grade models. But they are still the most affordable Fenders. And we all know how it's going with big corporations - you're paying for headstock decal anyway. $200 for entry level models, or much more for expensive models.

[bessieboporbach]

And then there's me, ruining all their plans. I've been playing for 30 years and I'm happy to play a Squier whether it's on stage or while recording. As long as it plays to my expectations and sounds good to my ear I'm good to go! Every time I pick up a Classic Vibe, even a beat up one at Guitar Center, all it might need is a tweak to the truss rod and it would be ready to roll.

Just before my daughter was born I bought myself a Vintera Jag. I love that guitar, it pretty much perfectly meets my needs in a solid-body 6-string. But I also knew that it was the end of the line for me in terms of Fenders. I just can't imagine ever buying another Fender guitar, with the way the prices are trending.

Squiers, on the other hand, I can definitely imagine continuing to pick one up every few years to try something new, or as a mod platform. (N.b. not buying anything from a US company at the moment if I can avoid it.) In fact, I'm sore that they have evidently discontinued the Contemporary series and show no sign of refreshing it, as those guitars (pickups and switching aside) were very good.

I understand that I am not the target audience for these new Standards -- I have no "zip code envy" for a headstock decal. But leaving my own needs or wants aside, there should be a raison d'etre for a line of guitars that isn't just the name on the headstock.

[seenoevil II]

The attitude toward ceramic pickups is another example of that. The prevailing attitude is ceramic=bad because ceramics do not really lend themselves to a "classic rock" sound. But there are lots of types of music that ceramic pickups (or EMGs, for example) are very suited to.

Ehh, I think we're confusing some different concepts here. Ceramic in the context of the bar magnet of a PAF style HB just means a super strong magnet to help (along with more winds) to make the pickup hotter.

Ceramic in this context isn't really a tonal consideration. It's purely a cost saving maneuver. A cheap ceramic bar magnet butted against a non-magnetic steel slug saved just enough pennies per unit for fender to chose them over alnico slugs. In this pickup design context, directly magnified pole pieces v indirectly magnified doesn't make a huge difference IMO, but it certainly makes at least some. Probably most of all in the neck position.

You nailed it in your other posts though. This is fender trying to fill the $600ish price segment that they tried to stuff with Squier and failed. It makes me wonder though, how cheap could this guitar be with the same cost saving specs while being made in Mexico? It's probably not a huge difference.

The other thing I want to push back on just based on personal experience is to say that the Squier contemporary series and all squiers IMHO really aren't that great quality. Wood selection and electronics in particular are really woeful on these. I'm sure there are some "good ones," but the sheer number of bad ones is tough. They just aren't being given the opportunity to shine.

I hate to say this, because this take is the exact opposite of what I thought for years, but I think I've come around to the Gibson way of thinking. Make your student brand the best it can possibly be within the price range. In terms of specs, give the guitars every opportunity to be spectacular. Then, rely of mythos and a handful of superficial building techniques that signal old-timey craftsmanship (nitro, binding scraping, fret nibs) to justify the price hike and brand prestige of the MIA line.

I think fender know that if Squier were given the green light to use the better timber selection, CTS pots, and alnico pickups, their intermediate instruments would be in big trouble. What it boils down to is this, when you have this many rungs on your ladder, you have to start really contorting logic and common sense to justify each rung.

The pickups are ceramic because these are the cheapest fenders. I don't even think these make the guitars that much cheaper. It's purely so the MIM guitars can have something over these.

[Larry Mal]

I agree. I think ceramic pickups are fine. I just wonder if Fender does.

Because if Fender genuinely thought that ceramic pickups were the best, you'd expect to see them in the higher tiers of guitars, but you don't. So clearly Fender feels that the more expensive guitars get the better pickups.

And that's my point, I guess. The guitars are built to a price point.

Which is fine. I guess that's my feeling about these guitars and Fender in general. It's fine.

They are doing a good job with the offsets, though.

[distressed]

I think fender know that if Squier were given the green light to use the better timber selection, CTS pots, and alnico pickups, their intermediate instruments would be in big trouble. What it boils down to is this, when you have this many rungs on your ladder, you have to start really contorting logic and common sense to justify each rung.

Squier CVs and Anniversary models already have Alnico pickups, and I don't see what's wrong with their timber selection. Alpha mini pots should be ok, according to various techs I've spoken with.

This is how Fender classifies their guitars at the moment. Seems legit to me.



And before someone accuses me of being a Fender fanboi, just to mention that I have never bought a new guitar from any manufacturer in my life, I had 5-6 of them in total in my 35+ years of playing, and the only ones I have at the time are custom built Telecaster and heavily modded 40th Anniversary Squier JM. And I have no intentions of buying any more. Couldn't care less about big capitalist corporations, brand legacy, playing authentic and other gimmicks. Those who care and are concerned about the direction some of them are moving in, always have option to vote with their wallets, it's dead simple.

[seenoevil II]

I was aware of the alnico pick ups in the Squiers. I have some myself. If anything, that illustrates the arbitrary nature of the decision- that it really was about manufacturing a gradient inferiority and superiority.





If this is real, this has to be the most hilarious image I've seen. It's like a meme! My goodness, we've really lost the plot.

I can understand having two maybe 3 rungs on a ladder, but this is fricking absurd. It's like satire! How could anyone ever feel good about their purchase while knowing this exists? Every decision being made to justify a location in the pyramid. A literal pyramid scheme ! 13! 13, levels.

New forum rule: mandatory flair for what your highest level of attainment in the Fender pyramid is. Those with lower ranks must show deference to the higher ranks!

Okokok, get a grip, evil.

I could write a tome about how this is emblematic of everything wrong with society, and how it's almost offensive at a philosophical level.

I'm fully speaking for myself about only myself, but err, I think I'd almost be embarrassed to be seen to own a modern Fender product at this point. Which, granted is more than anyone should care about this topic. And frankly, I'm full of it because I already own a few and I've got other things to do than sell them off and possibly find suitable replacements. And I'm not actually embarrassed, I don't give a shit.

But this stirs some real antipathy towards that mark in me. Like. I think I'd only ever want to play conspicuous non-fenders at this point. Like takes on fender designs that are abundantly not trying to pass themselves off as the "real thing."

Sorry not sorry. I know I'll be ridiculed for this reaction (if only privately in the minds of some observers).

[distressed]

Sorry not sorry. I know I'll be ridiculed for this reaction (if only privately in the minds of some observers).

I'm not sure I'm following you fully at the moment (English being my second language), but I don't se why would anyone ridicule you. You do you.

[Larry Mal]

I still really like my Fender Bullet.

[BoringPostcards]

My first guitar was a Squier Telecaster. I loved it until the day it was no longer with me.
I currently own just one Squier, a CV70s Jaguar, and it kicks ass. I haven’t really had to do anything with it, besides smooth out the knife edge on the vibrato.

[eilrahc]

I still really like my Fender Bullet.

The Tele body shape ones are my favourites. I saw Death Cab for Cutie and the Postal Service last summer and it filled me with joy to see Ben Gibbard still rocking his old Bullets amidst a sea of custom shop and boutique guitars. It just seemed so cool.

I'm another in the "I love my Squier" club too.

[Larry Mal]

The Tele body shape ones are my favourites. I saw Death Cab for Cutie and the Postal Service last summer and it filled me with joy to see Ben Gibbard still rocking his old Bullets amidst a sea of custom shop and boutique guitars. It just seemed so cool.

I'm another in the "I love my Squier" club too.

That's what I got!



It came to me a husk and I rebuilt it, so it's nowhere near stock or anything.

[welshywelsh]

Whether the picture is legitimate or not, you can apply that pyramid to plenty of large brands.

Buy a base model Toyota, or add some optional extras, or buy a better model than the base model, or that better model with optional extras. If you're really flush, go Lexus with all the options.

Its the same with pretty much every consumer good. Now and again the more expensive car/hifi gear/running shoe is bested by a cheaper version in the range.

[bessieboporbach]

Whether the picture is legitimate or not, you can apply that pyramid to plenty of large brands.

Buy a base model Toyota, or add some optional extras, or buy a better model than the base model, or that better model with optional extras. If you're really flush, go Lexus with all the options.

Its the same with pretty much every consumer good. Now and again the more expensive car/hifi gear/running shoe is bested by a cheaper version in the range.

Guitar players like to pretend that the companies that manufacture their instruments aren't "like other corporations," but of course they are. And indeed FMIC is probably the most "like other corporations" of them all. Remember the hue and cry over Gibson's "Play Authentic" campaign? Fender is way too manicured and focus-grouped to ever do something like that.

[B.T.]

I was aware of the alnico pick ups in the Squiers. I have some myself. If anything, that illustrates the arbitrary nature of the decision- that it really was about manufacturing a gradient inferiority and superiority.





If this is real, this has to be the most hilarious image I've seen. It's like a meme! My goodness, we've really lost the plot.

I can understand having two maybe 3 rungs on a ladder, but this is fricking absurd. It's like satire! How could anyone ever feel good about their purchase while knowing this exists? Every decision being made to justify a location in the pyramid. A literal pyramid scheme ! 13! 13, levels.

Someone doing the marketing at Fender must be a Mason