Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

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timtam
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Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by timtam » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:37 pm

Which if any Fender offsets have rolled fretboard edges ?
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by Francer » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:51 pm

Probably anything vintage spec’d.

To be honest it’s a pretty vague question. Is there anything specifically you’re interested in? JMs, Jags, Mustangs etc.

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by timtam » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:05 am

The question came into my mind when considering why one 56mm wide E-E spaced bridge didn't end up with strings falling off the edge of the fretboard while some others do ...
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... 5#p1534277
Obviously more things than just the bridge's E-E spacing play into that, one of which would be whether or not the fretboard edges are rolled.
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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by oid » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:29 am

I have yet to see a guitar with the fretboard edges rolled so severely that it caused problems with string slipping off*, most common cause is that the bevel on the fret ends is too shallow and/or brought in to far, after that it is the neck is askew or bridge is off, sometimes the taper of the neck from nut to heel is off and one side tapers more than the other and sometimes the neck is narrower than it should be. So far every picture I have seen of Fenders with this issue it has been on one E only, generally the low E, and the high E is further in from the edge than it should be, suggesting the geometry is off somewhere. This would be a very difficult issue to accurately diagnose remotely, but an accurate diagnoses is generally not needed for a solution.

The rolled fretboard edges do make it easier to bring the bevel of the fret ends in to far, but that is more of an issue with inattentive workers than rolled fretboards.

I always assumed part of the reason Leo spring for the expense of all those extra string grooves on the AOM bridge was to give some wiggle room, the geometry did not have to be perfect since you could just use a different set of grooves. Just being able to use the same set of saddles on guitars which needed a different string spacing does not really justify that expense, there are simpler and cheaper ways to achieve that same goal.

*I actually have seen it, but only on very old worn necks that had poorly done fretboard work before a refret, never on a new instrument, probably does happen from time to time though.
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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by timtam » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:24 am

Seems like it was the American Professional series that was commonly reported to have the E falling off issue. It of course had a 56mm E-E spaced Mustang bridge, so couldn't be easily corrected by shifting string slots as on the classic bridge.
https://mmguitarbar.wordpress.com/2016/ ... th-review/

In that case it did often seem to be a bilateral low E / high E issue ...
Image

But sometimes guitars with 56mm E-E spaced Mustang bridges don't have this issue. It was one like that which prompted the question in the other thread. Maybe some or all of the Am Pro's necks tapered width-wise down to the pocket in an odd way (given that heel width / neck pocket width is standardized). Or the nut slots were cut too widely spaced.
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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by oid » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:15 am

For most players those E strings would be to close to the fret ends, but they are certainly playable. Fender's one neck for all guitars ideology limits neck width at the heel, the only way you can get the strings away from the edges with 56mm is to go with a narrower nut spacing so the strings taper inwards away from the edges quicker. So if some models have a smaller string spacing at the nut that could be it, but I suspect it is mostly that those who do not have issues just have excellent fretting technique and/or use higher tension strings so they are less likely to accidentally push it off the edge.

Edit: The strings being that close to the edges means there is no room for error in the beveling of the fret ends, so some could also have issues there.
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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by Telemnemonics » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:53 am

oid wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:29 am
I have yet to see a guitar with the fretboard edges rolled so severely that it caused problems with string slipping off*, most common cause is that the bevel on the fret ends is too shallow and/or brought in to far, ......

*I actually have seen it, but only on very old worn necks that had poorly done fretboard work before a refret, never on a new instrument, probably does happen from time to time though.
I haven't seen it on a new guitar either but I've seen pics of some high end RI Fenders where they did indeed take the rolled edge craze too far.
Like you said, in addition to rolling the fretboard edges quite a bit, Fender over beveled the fret ends at too low an angle.

AFAIK this is on some CS models and maybe something in the AVRI line, but again, I never handle such guitars in shops because they are above my pay grade. Most of what I've read was on the TDPRI but I've seen such discussions and pics on other forums.
One player actually had his new CS Fender refretted to get back the lost fret real estate, but because so much wood had been removed from the fretboard edges, the formerly fat neck lost a fair amount of lumber in the fix.
Might have been better to sell the durn thing, but the guy was into it for the new price and the value dropped as soon as he took delivery.
Can't say if any CS offsets got the treatment but it seems Fender was upping the game on "comfort" while forgetting function.
Imagine that!

For my own nickel, I prefer to bevel steeper than normal to keep the frets extra long on top, and then only bevel the fretboard between the frets.

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by Telemnemonics » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:57 am

Dammit I hit quote instead of edit...

Anyhow, I believe it was Wildwood Fenders that had the ridiculous over rolling of the edges

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by NateD81 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:23 pm

timtam wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:37 pm
Which if any Fender offsets have rolled fretboard edges ?
I still need to do measurements on my MIM 60th Anni JM, but it does not have rolled fretboard edges. My last JM, an American Special (hardtail) did and I have issues on the low E even with 11s and 12s on it.

So far, with the Am pro bridge I just installed on the 9.5” fretboard, I’m having zero issues-though I’m not sure if that’ll be universal — Using 10s FWIW

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by Larsongs » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:58 pm

I haven't seen many, if any, Fenders suffering from overly rolled Fret edges. Although I have seen the extreme opposite on most new Fenders recently. They're so unfinished & sharp you could cut your fingers....

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by timtam » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:25 pm

Yes ... I have a Classic Player jag neck that is possibly the sharpest edge I've ever played. I'm actually thinking of rolling it myself. Some people just take a screw driver shaft to them. I may do something more sophisticated than that. ;)
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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by djspecialist » Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:04 am

I've just bought a JMJM neck for a build, and would like to roll the edges slightly. From what I've seen, shaving with a razorblade or compressing with a screwdriver shaft are possible methods. Do people on here have any recommendations? I'm planning to take it _very_ carefully to avoid losing too much fretboard real estate, but I hope that even a very slight rounding will result in a noticeable improvement to the feel.

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by HarlowTheFish » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:53 am

djspecialist wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:04 am
I've just bought a JMJM neck for a build, and would like to roll the edges slightly. From what I've seen, shaving with a razorblade or compressing with a screwdriver shaft are possible methods. Do people on here have any recommendations? I'm planning to take it _very_ carefully to avoid losing too much fretboard real estate, but I hope that even a very slight rounding will result in a noticeable improvement to the feel.
On an unfinished neck (which is way easier to do) I'll just break the edge of the fretboard a bit with an emery board -- usually one board will do a full neck. When it's already finished, I'd honestly rather just sand off the finish because otherwise the difference in feel is honestly more disconcerting than the square edge.

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by djspecialist » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:26 am

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:53 am
djspecialist wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:04 am
I've just bought a JMJM neck for a build, and would like to roll the edges slightly. From what I've seen, shaving with a razorblade or compressing with a screwdriver shaft are possible methods. Do people on here have any recommendations?
On an unfinished neck (which is way easier to do) I'll just break the edge of the fretboard a bit with an emery board -- usually one board will do a full neck. When it's already finished, I'd honestly rather just sand off the finish because otherwise the difference in feel is honestly more disconcerting than the square edge.
Even for a rosewood board without binding?

Would you use a strip of sandpaper, cut to fit between the frets, or a file?

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Re: Rolled fretboard edges on Fender offsets ?

Post by HarlowTheFish » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:58 pm

djspecialist wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:26 am
HarlowTheFish wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:53 am
djspecialist wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:04 am
I've just bought a JMJM neck for a build, and would like to roll the edges slightly. From what I've seen, shaving with a razorblade or compressing with a screwdriver shaft are possible methods. Do people on here have any recommendations?
On an unfinished neck (which is way easier to do) I'll just break the edge of the fretboard a bit with an emery board -- usually one board will do a full neck. When it's already finished, I'd honestly rather just sand off the finish because otherwise the difference in feel is honestly more disconcerting than the square edge.
Even for a rosewood board without binding?

Would you use a strip of sandpaper, cut to fit between the frets, or a file?
I've done maple (unbound, finished), maple (bound, unfinished), and ebony (unbound, unfinished). Finished turned out pretty hot garbage, because I could feel the difference between the finished fretboard/back of the neck and where I'd done the rounding, and it wasn't good. The bound unfinished maple was fine, just had to be careful to not get too deep because of the side dots, and the unfinished ebony turned out great with no issues.

I like a soft emery board (the squishy manicure files) because they have a rough side which is great for breaking the corner, and a fine side to round it over and give you a lot more control. Don't get a cheap one, it'll basically melt -- shell out a few bucks for a nice one (maybe call a friend who's into doing their nails and get a recommendation if you're kinda lost on what to get) and it'll do a neck with no real issues. On the ebony neck I did it before the neck was finished as I was building it, so I just hit the corner with the same pre-finish sanding as the rest of the neck.

I'd really say if your neck is already finished, I'll recommend taking the finish off or being really careful to not leave hard transitions between sanded and finished because it feel awful -- I did this to a finished maple neck and that guitar got sold within 2 weeks because it felt gross.

Keep in mind that this is to get something really nicely dialed in, if you just want to break the edge then a screwdriver shaft is fine, but I've seen friends crack neck finishes doing this so I'll stick by my recommendation of the emery board and lots of care.

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