Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
User avatar
s_mcsleazy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 16089
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:30 am
Location: glasgow

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by s_mcsleazy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:06 pm

hey guys. quick question for anyone who's taken one of these apart. how hot are the pickups? i'm building a xii and the pickups on these felt a bit...... lackluster so if anyone can get me the impedance of the pickups so i can maybe work out something hotter, that's cool
offset guitars resident bass player.
'Are you trying to seduce me Mrs Robinson? Or do you just want me to solder a couple of resistors into your Muff?'

User avatar
bessieboporbach
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:40 am

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by bessieboporbach » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:40 pm

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:06 pm
hey guys. quick question for anyone who's taken one of these apart. how hot are the pickups? i'm building a xii and the pickups on these felt a bit...... lackluster so if anyone can get me the impedance of the pickups so i can maybe work out something hotter, that's cool
I'm probably telling you something you already know, but it's hard to go by DC resistance readings alone as a measure of the output of these pickups because they have a unique design.

You can only really use resistance as a way of comparing two pickups of identical design because, in that situation, the DCR will theoretically give you an indication of how many winds around the bobbin there are. So, for example, Seymour Duncan gives DCR ratings for all of their normal humbuckers because they are all constructed identically, the only difference being the number of windings.

So, in short, DCR is pretty much meaningless in comparing XII pickups to pups of any other design.

In terms of output, my sense is actually that the ARXII pickups -- or at least the bridge -- are relatively hot as these things go. Many modern Fender bridge pups put out a lot of output and I don't think the ARXII is an exception.

User avatar
s_mcsleazy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 16089
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:30 am
Location: glasgow

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by s_mcsleazy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:04 pm

bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:40 pm
s_mcsleazy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:06 pm
hey guys. quick question for anyone who's taken one of these apart. how hot are the pickups? i'm building a xii and the pickups on these felt a bit...... lackluster so if anyone can get me the impedance of the pickups so i can maybe work out something hotter, that's cool
I'm probably telling you something you already know, but it's hard to go by DC resistance readings alone as a measure of the output of these pickups because they have a unique design.

You can only really use resistance as a way of comparing two pickups of identical design because, in that situation, the DCR will theoretically give you an indication of how many winds around the bobbin there are. So, for example, Seymour Duncan gives DCR ratings for all of their normal humbuckers because they are all constructed identically, the only difference being the number of windings.

So, in short, DCR is pretty much meaningless in comparing XII pickups to pups of any other design.

In terms of output, my sense is actually that the ARXII pickups -- or at least the bridge -- are relatively hot as these things go. Many modern Fender bridge pups put out a lot of output and I don't think the ARXII is an exception.
yeah i know. i just need a kinda ballpark estimate.
offset guitars resident bass player.
'Are you trying to seduce me Mrs Robinson? Or do you just want me to solder a couple of resistors into your Muff?'

User avatar
bessieboporbach
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:40 am

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by bessieboporbach » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:43 pm

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:04 pm
bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:40 pm
s_mcsleazy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:06 pm
hey guys. quick question for anyone who's taken one of these apart. how hot are the pickups? i'm building a xii and the pickups on these felt a bit...... lackluster so if anyone can get me the impedance of the pickups so i can maybe work out something hotter, that's cool
I'm probably telling you something you already know, but it's hard to go by DC resistance readings alone as a measure of the output of these pickups because they have a unique design.

You can only really use resistance as a way of comparing two pickups of identical design because, in that situation, the DCR will theoretically give you an indication of how many winds around the bobbin there are. So, for example, Seymour Duncan gives DCR ratings for all of their normal humbuckers because they are all constructed identically, the only difference being the number of windings.

So, in short, DCR is pretty much meaningless in comparing XII pickups to pups of any other design.

In terms of output, my sense is actually that the ARXII pickups -- or at least the bridge -- are relatively hot as these things go. Many modern Fender bridge pups put out a lot of output and I don't think the ARXII is an exception.
yeah i know. i just need a kinda ballpark estimate.
Well what I was getting at is that a ballpark estimate of DCR isn't going to tell you anything about the pickup's output, unless you plan to make one with an identical design, just more windings.

For example, the bridge pickup of a VM or CV JM has a DCR of like 15k ohms, but that doesn't mean its output is higher than a Strat pickup measuring 8k. It only tells you that it's hotter than the otherwise identical neck pickup measuring 8k.

User avatar
s_mcsleazy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 16089
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:30 am
Location: glasgow

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by s_mcsleazy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:27 am

bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:43 pm


Well what I was getting at is that a ballpark estimate of DCR isn't going to tell you anything about the pickup's output, unless you plan to make one with an identical design, just more windings.

For example, the bridge pickup of a VM or CV JM has a DCR of like 15k ohms, but that doesn't mean its output is higher than a Strat pickup measuring 8k. It only tells you that it's hotter than the otherwise identical neck pickup measuring 8k.
ok, i know all this. i know the design of the pickup and the magnets make a difference. i get it. my point is i could get a good baseline from a normal pickup and go from there. in my experience split pickups with the same magnets are usually louder than say a telecaster pickup of the same DCR. i'm going to use that information of what the DCR is on the pickup and apply that to my former knowledge so i can work out what DCR on something else i'd need so i'm not using a pickup that's super hot or super cold for my rig.
offset guitars resident bass player.
'Are you trying to seduce me Mrs Robinson? Or do you just want me to solder a couple of resistors into your Muff?'

User avatar
jakeisjake
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5967
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:39 am
Location: i am the OGRE kukukachu, vermont
Contact:

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by jakeisjake » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:53 pm

Got the GAS for one of these...

I also have just about enough cash...I'll be looking soon (altho, I might hold off if Fender is considering another run of them)!
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

User avatar
Nudger
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:10 am
Location: England

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by Nudger » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:55 am

hey mcsleazy
I dismantled a AR XII and found that the pots were 250k.. Not 1M as on a 60s original.

The pickup measured about 10.5k which is in the same ballpark as a 60s XII.

I found my original 66 Electric XII to harsh for my ear and sold it.. I built a XII with 500k pots and it sounded better " To my ear" even with one of the pickups out of a AR XII.

I deduced from this that the pots have a lot more to do with the XII sound than I thought.

So if youve heard a Alternate Reality XII but felt it was a bit tame, maybe try sticking with 10ks pups but experimenting with with diff values pots.

User avatar
Soniqfreq
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:56 am

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by Soniqfreq » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:05 am

The master built XII uses 250k pots with a 10% taper split and Novak pickups.

User avatar
Nudger
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:10 am
Location: England

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by Nudger » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:13 am

By master build are you on about the fender custom shops?

If so that explains a lot..

My original 66 sounded nothing like the carlos lopez builds..

My home builds sound closer to Carlos with lower K pots.

User avatar
jakeisjake
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5967
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:39 am
Location: i am the OGRE kukukachu, vermont
Contact:

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by jakeisjake » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:47 am

Just pulled the trigger on a white AR XII...pretty excited!
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

User avatar
Nudger
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:10 am
Location: England

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by Nudger » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:01 pm

Enjoy..dont think youl be disappointed.
Comfy as a 6 to play.

User avatar
SignoftheDragon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:06 am
Location: Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by SignoftheDragon » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:43 pm

Congrats- You're going to love it!

User avatar
jakeisjake
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5967
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:39 am
Location: i am the OGRE kukukachu, vermont
Contact:

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by jakeisjake » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:00 am

*arrived at the "local" distribution center this morning at 6am...will it get on today's truck????* :w00t:
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

User avatar
HarlowTheFish
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 290
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:09 pm

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by HarlowTheFish » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:26 am

jakeisjake wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:00 am
*arrived at the "local" distribution center this morning at 6am...will it get on today's truck????* :w00t:
Is it USPS? I had a body get stuck from December 27th to January 15th with no movement or updates. It just suddenly had an "attempted delivery" notice and all the updates showed up. Shipping is really stuck right now.

User avatar
MKR
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:06 am

Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by MKR » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:28 am

Man I want one of these so bad.

I just dipped my toe in the 12 string world for the second time. First time was a couple years ago with a 12 string danelectro which I moved on from after a month. it was more a result of my playing style and not being familiar with 12 strings in general. Well I just picked up a 12 string acoustic recently and honestly I can't get enough of it. Playing it with a simpler style with more emphasis on rhythm and rhythmic licks/runs and suddenly I feel like a born again guitarist. there's something about a 12 string that brings a real richness to some songs.

makes me want one of these fenders real bad.

Post Reply