Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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s_mcsleazy
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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by s_mcsleazy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:06 pm

hey guys. quick question for anyone who's taken one of these apart. how hot are the pickups? i'm building a xii and the pickups on these felt a bit...... lackluster so if anyone can get me the impedance of the pickups so i can maybe work out something hotter, that's cool
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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by bessieboporbach » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:40 pm

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:06 pm
hey guys. quick question for anyone who's taken one of these apart. how hot are the pickups? i'm building a xii and the pickups on these felt a bit...... lackluster so if anyone can get me the impedance of the pickups so i can maybe work out something hotter, that's cool
I'm probably telling you something you already know, but it's hard to go by DC resistance readings alone as a measure of the output of these pickups because they have a unique design.

You can only really use resistance as a way of comparing two pickups of identical design because, in that situation, the DCR will theoretically give you an indication of how many winds around the bobbin there are. So, for example, Seymour Duncan gives DCR ratings for all of their normal humbuckers because they are all constructed identically, the only difference being the number of windings.

So, in short, DCR is pretty much meaningless in comparing XII pickups to pups of any other design.

In terms of output, my sense is actually that the ARXII pickups -- or at least the bridge -- are relatively hot as these things go. Many modern Fender bridge pups put out a lot of output and I don't think the ARXII is an exception.

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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by s_mcsleazy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:04 pm

bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:40 pm
s_mcsleazy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:06 pm
hey guys. quick question for anyone who's taken one of these apart. how hot are the pickups? i'm building a xii and the pickups on these felt a bit...... lackluster so if anyone can get me the impedance of the pickups so i can maybe work out something hotter, that's cool
I'm probably telling you something you already know, but it's hard to go by DC resistance readings alone as a measure of the output of these pickups because they have a unique design.

You can only really use resistance as a way of comparing two pickups of identical design because, in that situation, the DCR will theoretically give you an indication of how many winds around the bobbin there are. So, for example, Seymour Duncan gives DCR ratings for all of their normal humbuckers because they are all constructed identically, the only difference being the number of windings.

So, in short, DCR is pretty much meaningless in comparing XII pickups to pups of any other design.

In terms of output, my sense is actually that the ARXII pickups -- or at least the bridge -- are relatively hot as these things go. Many modern Fender bridge pups put out a lot of output and I don't think the ARXII is an exception.
yeah i know. i just need a kinda ballpark estimate.
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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by bessieboporbach » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:43 pm

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:04 pm
bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:40 pm
s_mcsleazy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:06 pm
hey guys. quick question for anyone who's taken one of these apart. how hot are the pickups? i'm building a xii and the pickups on these felt a bit...... lackluster so if anyone can get me the impedance of the pickups so i can maybe work out something hotter, that's cool
I'm probably telling you something you already know, but it's hard to go by DC resistance readings alone as a measure of the output of these pickups because they have a unique design.

You can only really use resistance as a way of comparing two pickups of identical design because, in that situation, the DCR will theoretically give you an indication of how many winds around the bobbin there are. So, for example, Seymour Duncan gives DCR ratings for all of their normal humbuckers because they are all constructed identically, the only difference being the number of windings.

So, in short, DCR is pretty much meaningless in comparing XII pickups to pups of any other design.

In terms of output, my sense is actually that the ARXII pickups -- or at least the bridge -- are relatively hot as these things go. Many modern Fender bridge pups put out a lot of output and I don't think the ARXII is an exception.
yeah i know. i just need a kinda ballpark estimate.
Well what I was getting at is that a ballpark estimate of DCR isn't going to tell you anything about the pickup's output, unless you plan to make one with an identical design, just more windings.

For example, the bridge pickup of a VM or CV JM has a DCR of like 15k ohms, but that doesn't mean its output is higher than a Strat pickup measuring 8k. It only tells you that it's hotter than the otherwise identical neck pickup measuring 8k.

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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by s_mcsleazy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:27 am

bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:43 pm


Well what I was getting at is that a ballpark estimate of DCR isn't going to tell you anything about the pickup's output, unless you plan to make one with an identical design, just more windings.

For example, the bridge pickup of a VM or CV JM has a DCR of like 15k ohms, but that doesn't mean its output is higher than a Strat pickup measuring 8k. It only tells you that it's hotter than the otherwise identical neck pickup measuring 8k.
ok, i know all this. i know the design of the pickup and the magnets make a difference. i get it. my point is i could get a good baseline from a normal pickup and go from there. in my experience split pickups with the same magnets are usually louder than say a telecaster pickup of the same DCR. i'm going to use that information of what the DCR is on the pickup and apply that to my former knowledge so i can work out what DCR on something else i'd need so i'm not using a pickup that's super hot or super cold for my rig.
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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by jakeisjake » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:53 pm

Got the GAS for one of these...

I also have just about enough cash...I'll be looking soon (altho, I might hold off if Fender is considering another run of them)!
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by Nudger » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:55 am

hey mcsleazy
I dismantled a AR XII and found that the pots were 250k.. Not 1M as on a 60s original.

The pickup measured about 10.5k which is in the same ballpark as a 60s XII.

I found my original 66 Electric XII to harsh for my ear and sold it.. I built a XII with 500k pots and it sounded better " To my ear" even with one of the pickups out of a AR XII.

I deduced from this that the pots have a lot more to do with the XII sound than I thought.

So if youve heard a Alternate Reality XII but felt it was a bit tame, maybe try sticking with 10ks pups but experimenting with with diff values pots.

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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by Soniqfreq » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:05 am

The master built XII uses 250k pots with a 10% taper split and Novak pickups.

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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by Nudger » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:13 am

By master build are you on about the fender custom shops?

If so that explains a lot..

My original 66 sounded nothing like the carlos lopez builds..

My home builds sound closer to Carlos with lower K pots.

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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by jakeisjake » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:47 am

Just pulled the trigger on a white AR XII...pretty excited!
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by Nudger » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:01 pm

Enjoy..dont think youl be disappointed.
Comfy as a 6 to play.

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Re: Fender Alternate Reality Electric XII 12-String

Post by SignoftheDragon » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:43 pm

Congrats- You're going to love it!

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