Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

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Larsongs
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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by Larsongs » Tue May 21, 2019 8:50 pm

angerjas wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:57 am
Larsongs wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:36 am
If these are nothing more than re-Logo'd VMJM's level of QC hopefully it won't change the rest of the CV Line of Guitars which have been excellent til now...... That would be a shame...

Why didn't they up their QC to CV level, which is all the VM's needed? I don't get it?
Simple answer - $$$. Take the name recognition of the higher rated CV one but build it to the lower price point of the VM range. People go in expecting Squier CV quality control and bang for the buck awesomeness but get the more hit to miss VM quality.
Instead Fender would rather taint the image of all CV's? Is that good Business? Doesn't seem like it to me... Seems like it will end up hurting Sales on the other CV's..

With the money they used to promo & advertise these so called CV's they could've hired a good QC Mgr or 2 or 3 & simply improve QC.... Why would that be so hard to do? Just build a real CV.. They'd have a winner!

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by alexpigment » Tue May 21, 2019 9:29 pm

Who knows - maybe Fender will absorb the Chinese CVs into their own brand and keep the Squier CV line in Indonesia. They already kinda did this with the Modern Player models, though the design choices were questionable on those.

I’d like to know how much - if any - the CV guitars were cannibalizing sales of real Fenders. From my own experience, I stopped buying MIM Fenders and now have 4 Chinese Squiers that I think are as good/better than MIMs

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by Danley » Tue May 21, 2019 9:48 pm

alexpigment wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:29 pm
Who knows - maybe Fender will absorb the Chinese CVs into their own brand and keep the Squier CV line in Indonesia. They already kinda did this with the Modern Player models, though the design choices were questionable on those.

I’d like to know how much - if any - the CV guitars were cannibalizing sales of real Fenders. From my own experience, I stopped buying MIM Fenders and now have 4 Chinese Squiers that I think are as good/better than MIMs
True on Chinese Squiers being great typically - But I think the MIM Lacquer Series Jaguars/Jazzmasters are really amazing guitars; underrated and will kill any Squier - Or MIJ for that matter. They're really the next best thing to an AVRI every time I've picked one up, and are the best Offset bargain at something like $500 used.
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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by alexpigment » Tue May 21, 2019 9:56 pm

Danley wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:48 pm

True on Chinese Squiers being great typically - But I think the MIM Lacquer Series Jaguars/Jazzmasters are really amazing guitars; underrated and will kill any Squier - Or MIJ for that matter. They're really the next best thing to an AVRI every time I've picked one up, and are the best Offset bargain at something like $500 used.
A) I think my modded Squier Deluxe JM will kill your Lacquer JM, and is far cheaper too. I realized I’m biased but I’ll stick up for my baby :)

B) I think it comes down to spec preferences. The Chinese Squiers usually go for modern appointments when it makes sense to deviate from vintage ones. The 60s lacquer is decidedly vintage, although they cheaped out on the trem.

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by Larsongs » Wed May 22, 2019 6:51 am

alexpigment wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:56 pm
Danley wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:48 pm

True on Chinese Squiers being great typically - But I think the MIM Lacquer Series Jaguars/Jazzmasters are really amazing guitars; underrated and will kill any Squier - Or MIJ for that matter. They're really the next best thing to an AVRI every time I've picked one up, and are the best Offset bargain at something like $500 used.
A) I think my modded Squier Deluxe JM will kill your Lacquer JM, and is far cheaper too. I realized I’m biased but I’ll stick up for my baby :)

B) I think it comes down to spec preferences. The Chinese Squiers usually go for modern appointments when it makes sense to deviate from vintage ones. The 60s lacquer is decidedly vintage, although they cheaped out on the trem.
Quote "A) I think my modded Squier Deluxe JM will kill your Lacquer JM, and is far cheaper too. I realized I’m biased but I’ll stick up for my baby :)" End Quote

The VMJM's could be good Guitars out of the box with good QC Mgt. But, Kill? That's a pretty bold statement. I'd like to see an A/B comparison & your Receipts..... The only Fender/Squier JM's better than a Lacquer are AV65's, USA FSR's & Custom Shop....

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by alexpigment » Wed May 22, 2019 8:15 am

Admittedly, I was being a bit tongue in cheek, but yes, I still stand by that statement. It all comes down to preferences though. First, the neck on the J Mascis / Squier Deluxe Jazzmaster is one of the best necks on a Fender that I've ever owned. I think you'll find many who agree with this sentiment. Secondly, the trem is moved forward compared to vintage JMs, which increases break angle, adds sustain, etc. Lastly, my mods are as follows - Staytrem bridge, AVRI trem, and 'hidden' telecaster pickups with a hidden dummy coil for silent operation. We're talking about a $400 guitar with about $250 in upgrades, and at this point I cannot think of a single thing that needs improving even if money was no object.

I have zero doubts that the 60s Lacquer is a great guitar. Unfortunately, I don't really dig 7.25" radius offsets (harder to achieve/maintain a buzz-free, low-action, non-fretting-out setup in my opinion), I don't really like vintage frets, and I don't like the vintage tremolo position. On top of that, I really like the trem-lock and I don't know why they didn't include that at that price point. And the bridge - well, if the trem position was closer, I'd be OK with it, but I just don't think there's sufficient break angle to be happy with that style bridge without shimming and raising it up (which I hate doing). But yes, it's a vintage spec offset with a thin paint coat and much more affordable than similar offerings in the past - I can see why it fits the bill for a lot of players.

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by alexpigment » Wed May 22, 2019 10:04 am

Larsongs wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:51 am
The VMJM's could be good Guitars out of the box with good QC Mgt. But, Kill? That's a pretty bold statement. I'd like to see an A/B comparison & your Receipts..... The only Fender/Squier JM's better than a Lacquer are AV65's, USA FSR's & Custom Shop....
I just re-read your post and realized you thought I was talking about a VMJM. Yes, I think in that instance I'd take a 60s Lacquer and get used to the radius and frets. There's a pretty huge difference in overall quality between those two guitars, even with factoring out the shoddy quality control of the VMs.

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by Larsongs » Fri May 24, 2019 9:34 pm

alexpigment wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:04 am
Larsongs wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:51 am
The VMJM's could be good Guitars out of the box with good QC Mgt. But, Kill? That's a pretty bold statement. I'd like to see an A/B comparison & your Receipts..... The only Fender/Squier JM's better than a Lacquer are AV65's, USA FSR's & Custom Shop....
I just re-read your post and realized you thought I was talking about a VMJM. Yes, I think in that instance I'd take a 60s Lacquer and get used to the radius and frets. There's a pretty huge difference in overall quality between those two guitars, even with factoring out the shoddy quality control of the VMs.

I forgot the Deluxe was very similar to the JMJM. Much better than the VMJM's IMO. I have JMJM.. After a really good Setup it was a good Guitar.. I like the Pickups a lot... Different than my AV65 JM. More like P90's which isn't a bad thing at all... I kept mine completely Stock, not even a Shim.

I like the Red & Gold.. If I needed another inexpensive JM I'd get one....

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by alexpigment » Fri May 24, 2019 11:30 pm

Larsongs wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:34 pm
I forgot the Deluxe was very similar to the JMJM. Much better than the VMJM's IMO. I have JMJM.. After a really good Setup it was a good Guitar.. I like the Pickups a lot... Different than my AV65 JM. More like P90's which isn't a bad thing at all... I kept mine completely Stock, not even a Shim.

I like the Red & Gold.. If I needed another inexpensive JM I'd get one....
Yeah, these don't need a shim because the neck pocket is angled. As I've mentioned in other threads, I thought the neck pocket angle was pointless due to the closer trem position, so I reverse shimmed it to decrease the neck angle, which allows the bridge to be lower to the body for better playability. As for the gold pickguard on red - it wasn't really my style, but I knew that going in. I switched it with a mint guard and off white plastic parts.

Image

Anyway, I'll stop derailing this thread :)

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by Danley » Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 am

alexpigment wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:30 pm
Yeah, these don't need a shim because the neck pocket is angled. As I've mentioned in other threads, I thought the neck pocket angle was pointless due to the closer trem position, so I reverse shimmed it to decrease the neck angle, which allows the bridge to be lower to the body for better playability. As for the gold pickguard on red - it wasn't really my style, but I knew that going in. I switched it with a mint guard and off white plastic parts.
Funny - I get along better a bridge that's higher off the guitar body (although I still don't shim my guitars.) Part of the reason Jazzmaster/Jaguar ergonomics tend to agree with me, is the strings are on a bit of a 'platform' vs. say a Strat, where they can on occasion be just barely above the pickguard and I need to make an effort to angle my picking hand to an uncomfortable degree to 'dig in.'

I still stand by the MIM lacquer series having a near optimum balance of price, quality, and features - but glad for anyone who likes their Squier :) I don't actually have an MIM lacquer (since I'm aiming to go whole-hog for American sometime soon,) but I enjoy the VM Jazzmaster I have at the moment - It's worth the ~<$200 I paid for it. I'd say the Deluxe is probably a tier up from that construction-wise, but think you still just about get what you pay for with Jazzmasters on the Squier/MIM continuum.
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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by alexpigment » Mon May 27, 2019 10:12 am

Danley wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 am
Funny - I get along better a bridge that's higher off the guitar body (although I still don't shim my guitars.) Part of the reason Jazzmaster/Jaguar ergonomics tend to agree with me, is the strings are on a bit of a 'platform' vs. say a Strat, where they can on occasion be just barely above the pickguard and I need to make an effort to angle my picking hand to an uncomfortable degree to 'dig in.'
Yeah it doesn't surprise me that some people prefer this, especially people who may be coming from more of a Gibson / Les Paul background. I just feel like hand anchoring is one of the most important factors in playing guitar well, and I don't know how to anchor my hand when the bridge is that high.
Danley wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 am
I'd say the Deluxe is probably a tier up from that construction-wise, but think you still just about get what you pay for with Jazzmasters on the Squier/MIM continuum.
This is where I'd disagree slightly. I've owned two Classic Player JMs, two Squier Deluxes and one Squier JMJM. I do not feel like there is a $400 difference in quality in these guitars. There is a slight bit more heft to the metal parts of the CP, but those same parts are the ones I'd want to upgrade anyway. In other words, I would be doing the exact same mods to both guitars. The neck on the Squiers is significantly better than the CP though, in my opinion, which is why I think it's the better choice overall. Sure, you get into an entirely different beast when you go for the 60s Lacquer, but as I mentioned, that comes down to preference (vintage spec vs. modern). There's no doubt that the 60s Lacquer is on the upper end of the MIM spectrum, and at that tier, you should be reaching the point of diminishing returns on upgrades.

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by Larsongs » Tue May 28, 2019 6:07 am

alexpigment wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:12 am
Danley wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 am
Funny - I get along better a bridge that's higher off the guitar body (although I still don't shim my guitars.) Part of the reason Jazzmaster/Jaguar ergonomics tend to agree with me, is the strings are on a bit of a 'platform' vs. say a Strat, where they can on occasion be just barely above the pickguard and I need to make an effort to angle my picking hand to an uncomfortable degree to 'dig in.'
Yeah it doesn't surprise me that some people prefer this, especially people who may be coming from more of a Gibson / Les Paul background. I just feel like hand anchoring is one of the most important factors in playing guitar well, and I don't know how to anchor my hand when the bridge is that high.
Danley wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 am
I'd say the Deluxe is probably a tier up from that construction-wise, but think you still just about get what you pay for with Jazzmasters on the Squier/MIM continuum.
This is where I'd disagree slightly. I've owned two Classic Player JMs, two Squier Deluxes and one Squier JMJM. I do not feel like there is a $400 difference in quality in these guitars. There is a slight bit more heft to the metal parts of the CP, but those same parts are the ones I'd want to upgrade anyway. In other words, I would be doing the exact same mods to both guitars. The neck on the Squiers is significantly better than the CP though, in my opinion, which is why I think it's the better choice overall. Sure, you get into an entirely different beast when you go for the 60s Lacquer, but as I mentioned, that comes down to preference (vintage spec vs. modern). There's no doubt that the 60s Lacquer is on the upper end of the MIM spectrum, and at that tier, you should be reaching the point of diminishing returns on upgrades.
The Lacquer, unlike the others you mention, doesn't need Mods.. IMO it's the best Traditional JM in the Low (especially factoring in Mods) & Medium price JM's below USA JM models..

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by alexpigment » Tue May 28, 2019 7:24 am

Larsongs wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:07 am
The Lacquer, unlike the others you mention, doesn't need Mods.. IMO it's the best Traditional JM in the Low (especially factoring in Mods) & Medium price JM's below USA JM models..
I think you may have overlooked my last sentence:

"There's no doubt that the 60s Lacquer is on the upper end of the MIM spectrum, and at that tier, you should be reaching the point of diminishing returns on upgrades."

Having said that, I would certainly want to make two modifications on the 60s Lacquer if *I* were to get one. 1) AVRI tremolo with the lock on it. 2) Johnny Marr bridge. You can make the argument that these aren't necessary, but likewise, they're not necessary on the JMJM or Squier Deluxe. After all, you're the one who kept your JMJM completely stock.

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by Larsongs » Wed May 29, 2019 6:14 am

alexpigment wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:24 am
Larsongs wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:07 am
The Lacquer, unlike the others you mention, doesn't need Mods.. IMO it's the best Traditional JM in the Low (especially factoring in Mods) & Medium price JM's below USA JM models..
I think you may have overlooked my last sentence:

"There's no doubt that the 60s Lacquer is on the upper end of the MIM spectrum, and at that tier, you should be reaching the point of diminishing returns on upgrades."

Having said that, I would certainly want to make two modifications on the 60s Lacquer if *I* were to get one. 1) AVRI tremolo with the lock on it. 2) Johnny Marr bridge. You can make the argument that these aren't necessary, but likewise, they're not necessary on the JMJM or Squier Deluxe. After all, you're the one who kept your JMJM completely stock.
I agree the Locking Trem's are much better.. Can't speak for the Marr Bridge as I haven tried it... Not trying to offend, just thinking of the costs.. After spending money on Mods seeking the real AV Jazzmaster sound many end up buying a real AV Jazzmaster. By saving a bit more money buying a mint Used one might make more sense in the long run....

That said, there is nothing wrong with guys or gal who like to build or mod Guitars... You can end up with a great Guitar but re; resale value, it will be difficult to recoup the Mod costs.

Not being a Dive Bomber the Stock Trem is fine on my JMJM.. After a long & tedious Set up it's a really good Guitar now. It is my back up Guitar to my AV65 JM which is also completely Stock..

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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazzmaster - A Review

Post by Mike S » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:00 pm

Different people have different opinions, but I'm glad that it seems to largely be a good guitar. I was smart and pre-ordered a Left-Handed one before the March release. Here's a picture:

Image

oh wait...

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