Professional Jaguar in decision.

[mysticguitar]

I have small, Hobbit, hands, that's why I like 24 inch scale neck. I really want to get a good quality guitar and am looking at the American Professional Jaguar but I'm uncertain about the "deep C" neck profile as it is described as being fuller up the neck and with wider shoulders. Will this be a draw back for smaller hands? Please don't tell me to try one cause there are none to try on this island, thank you ahead of time.

[jvin248]

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I don't have that guitar, but given your preference I'd be cautious.

Most often look for descriptions for "60s style carve" or similar as it seemed all the brands went to skinny necks in the 60s.

(I avoid all the 60s versions as I want chunky necks).

One of the things that I've found useful is compare photographs of the sides of necks, sometimes hard to get a good angle. For education, start with comparing Fender Strat, Fender Tele, and Squier Strat (Bullet/Affinity) models and you'll see where the Fender models start carving behind the fretboard glue line, leaving the fretboard edges square/flat, while the Squier starts at the leading edge of the fretboard leaving almost a knife-edge. This cuts away a lot of the neck's rear shoulders so the circumference of the neck is a lot smaller even with only half a millimeter of width or depth variation quoted in the specs. Squier Teles are mixed (and why I have to look close if considering one). That may help you in your (remote from the store) searches.

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[mysticguitar]

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I don't have that guitar, but given your preference I'd be cautious.

Most often look for descriptions for "60s style carve" or similar as it seemed all the brands went to skinny necks in the 60s.

(I avoid all the 60s versions as I want chunky necks).

One of the things that I've found useful is compare photographs of the sides of necks, sometimes hard to get a good angle. For education, start with comparing Fender Strat, Fender Tele, and Squier Strat (Bullet/Affinity) models and you'll see where the Fender models start carving behind the fretboard glue line, leaving the fretboard edges square/flat, while the Squier starts at the leading edge of the fretboard leaving almost a knife-edge. This cuts away a lot of the neck's rear shoulders so the circumference of the neck is a lot smaller even with only half a millimeter of width or depth variation quoted in the specs. Squier Teles are mixed (and why I have to look close if considering one). That may help you in your (remote from the store) searches.

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Thanks jvin, your description of the necks is helpful and I can see the differences. When I started playing I did a lot of research on necks geared toward small hands and thin and flat radius was best, I looked at what Angus Young was playing, Gibson SG, 12 inch radius, thin taper D neck, I didn't buy a Gibson but got an Epiphone SG and it didn't work, my hand cramped up with chords, neck to flat, to thin. I did get a chance to play a J.Marr Jaguar and if I could have gotten a deal I would have bought it, although the neck had more thickness than I would have liked, also not fond of vintage specs. Despite what I said about no store carrying the American Professional Jaguar they do carry the American Pro Strat and although it is not 24 inch scale length it has that 'Deep C" neck and perhaps I could get a clue trying that guitar. I also talked to GC and they said I could return it, within a month if I didn't like it, however I pay $60 shipping, I guess I could think of it like renting a guitar for $60 a month. Thanks again.

[adamrobertt]

I have tiny hands (I'm a 5'6'' male) and I have never met a girl with smaller hands than me, no matter what size they are. And I prefer the full scale Jazzmaster. In fact, my '65 Thin Skin has the thickest neck I've ever had on a guitar, and it is INCREDIBLY comfortable. I actually think that thin necks cause more fatigue than fat ones do.

It makes sense if you think about it - you have to use more clamping pressure with your hand on a thin neck, and less on a fat one, since it kind of fills your hand.

[zenarcade]

My hands are not the biggest either. But I have no problem with thicker necks. The American professional Necks are really not thick. American Vintage65/Originals are a bit thicker but also very comfortable. The only Fender neck I ever had a problem was on a 65 NOS Custom Shop Strat.

[Embenny]

I have tiny hands (I'm a 5'6'' male) and I have never met a girl with smaller hands than me, no matter what size they are. And I prefer the full scale Jazzmaster. In fact, my '65 Thin Skin has the thickest neck I've ever had on a guitar, and it is INCREDIBLY comfortable. I actually think that thin necks cause more fatigue than fat ones do.

It makes sense if you think about it - you have to use more clamping pressure with your hand on a thin neck, and less on a fat one, since it kind of fills your hand.

I'm also 5'6", also have small hands and slender fingers (the smallest size women's gloves are usually the right fit for me, and I wear smaller size surgical gloves than half the women I work with), and also agree with everything said above, including my AV65 Jazzmaster completely opening my eyes (fatter neck than I had ever owned on an electric, by far the most comfortable). I do love my Jags though, and find 24" to be a very fun scale length for a guitar.

I'm going to say something unpopular now - hand size has nothing to do with which necks you can or can't play comfortably. I hear this over and over on acoustic and electric guitar forums. We may develop preferences over time, but often when those preferences become requirements, it's because we are aggravating issues that stem from poor technique.

When I was 12 years old, I was 5 feet tall and practicing classical guitar on a 2" wide neck. I'm now 5'6" and play everything from 14" scale ukuleles with 1.3" nut width to a 35" scale 6-string bass with a 2.1" nut.

In fact, a lot of my recent material on that bass has been with a capo at the fifth fret in "Bass VI" tuning (E-E), playing chords and polyphonic parts. The neck is like 3" wide at that point and I'm doing chord shapes spanning all 6 strings with my tiny 5'6" small-women's-glove-hands.

What I'm trying to say is that holding the instrument at an ergonomic angle and working on stretching and not over-gripping are super important. One of my guitar teachers taught me that you should be able to lift your thumb off the neck at any time and maintain whatever chord or fingering you're playing at the time - you're pressing with your fingers, not squeezing with your thumb. It's tricky and I wouldn't want to try to play a song like that, but it's a great exercise to check if you're over-relying on your thumb.

Mygrip on acoustic and electric is different from classical, and I do pop the thumb over the top sometimes for certain fingerings that would otherwise not work.

I also concede that neck profile has an impact (D shaped shoulders on necks drive me nuts, but don't prevent me from being able to play), and my thickest necks do make my hand feel a bit more relaxed and comfortable, but I've never met a neck that "caused" cramping or pain unless I was doing something wrong ergonomically.

[mysticguitar]

I have tiny hands (I'm a 5'6'' male) and I have never met a girl with smaller hands than me, no matter what size they are. And I prefer the full scale Jazzmaster. In fact, my '65 Thin Skin has the thickest neck I've ever had on a guitar, and it is INCREDIBLY comfortable. I actually think that thin necks cause more fatigue than fat ones do.

It makes sense if you think about it - you have to use more clamping pressure with your hand on a thin neck, and less on a fat one, since it kind of fills your hand.

Thanks for sharing.....In theory I can see why thin necks are recommended for small hands but like you said, it's the "clamping pressure" needed on those thin necks that are a bummer, add old age and it gets worst.

[mysticguitar]

My hands are not the biggest either. But I have no problem with thicker necks. The American professional Necks are really not thick. American Vintage65/Originals are a bit thicker but also very comfortable. The only Fender neck I ever had a problem was on a 65 NOS Custom Shop Strat.

I'm going to try a Am Pro Strat to day and at least get some kind of idea what there about.

[mysticguitar]

I have tiny hands (I'm a 5'6'' male) and I have never met a girl with smaller hands than me, no matter what size they are. And I prefer the full scale Jazzmaster. In fact, my '65 Thin Skin has the thickest neck I've ever had on a guitar, and it is INCREDIBLY comfortable. I actually think that thin necks cause more fatigue than fat ones do.

It makes sense if you think about it - you have to use more clamping pressure with your hand on a thin neck, and less on a fat one, since it kind of fills your hand.

I'm also 5'6", also have small hands and slender fingers (the smallest size women's gloves are usually the right fit for me, and I wear smaller size surgical gloves than half the women I work with), and also agree with everything said above, including my AV65 Jazzmaster completely opening my eyes (fatter neck than I had ever owned on an electric, by far the most comfortable). I do love my Jags though, and find 24" to be a very fun scale length for a guitar.

I'm going to say something unpopular now - hand size has nothing to do with which necks you can or can't play comfortably. I hear this over and over on acoustic and electric guitar forums. We may develop preferences over time, but often when those preferences become requirements, it's because we are aggravating issues that stem from poor technique.

When I was 12 years old, I was 5 feet tall and practicing classical guitar on a 2" wide neck. I'm now 5'6" and play everything from 14" scale ukuleles with 1.3" nut width to a 35" scale 6-string bass with a 2.1" nut.

In fact, a lot of my recent material on that bass has been with a capo at the fifth fret in "Bass VI" tuning (E-E), playing chords and polyphonic parts. The neck is like 3" wide at that point and I'm doing chord shapes spanning all 6 strings with my tiny 5'6" small-women's-glove-hands.

What I'm trying to say is that holding the instrument at an ergonomic angle and working on stretching and not over-gripping are super important. One of my guitar teachers taught me that you should be able to lift your thumb off the neck at any time and maintain whatever chord or fingering you're playing at the time - you're pressing with your fingers, not squeezing with your thumb. It's tricky and I wouldn't want to try to play a song like that, but it's a great exercise to check if you're over-relying on your thumb.

Mygrip on acoustic and electric is different from classical, and I do pop the thumb over the top sometimes for certain fingerings that would otherwise not work.

I also concede that neck profile has an impact (D shaped shoulders on necks drive me nuts, but don't prevent me from being able to play), and my thickest necks do make my hand feel a bit more relaxed and comfortable, but I've never met a neck that "caused" cramping or pain unless I was doing something wrong ergonomically.

I have made some adjustments in my technique, ergonomics, but not enough I guess cause I still have issues with alot of necks. Have you tried the deep C yet?

[mysticguitar]

So I played a Am. Pro. Strat this afternoon, of course that's not a 24 inch scale but I thought it would give me an idea of the neck profile. Yes the shoulders are wide but since I'm not fretting with my thumb that's not a problem, yes the neck gets thicker higher up, which actually is kind of nice. The narrow tall fret felt different. I think I'll pull the trigger and get the Jaguar, in Sunburst thru GC, after a month if doesn't work out I'll pay the shipping. $60. Thanks for listening to my neurotic ranting.

[mysticguitar]

I have tiny hands (I'm a 5'6'' male) and I have never met a girl with smaller hands than me, no matter what size they are. And I prefer the full scale Jazzmaster. In fact, my '65 Thin Skin has the thickest neck I've ever had on a guitar, and it is INCREDIBLY comfortable. I actually think that thin necks cause more fatigue than fat ones do.

It makes sense if you think about it - you have to use more clamping pressure with your hand on a thin neck, and less on a fat one, since it kind of fills your hand.

I'm also 5'6", also have small hands and slender fingers (the smallest size women's gloves are usually the right fit for me, and I wear smaller size surgical gloves than half the women I work with), and also agree with everything said above, including my AV65 Jazzmaster completely opening my eyes (fatter neck than I had ever owned on an electric, by far the most comfortable). I do love my Jags though, and find 24" to be a very fun scale length for a guitar.

I'm going to say something unpopular now - hand size has nothing to do with which necks you can or can't play comfortably. I hear this over and over on acoustic and electric guitar forums. We may develop preferences over time, but often when those preferences become requirements, it's because we are aggravating issues that stem from poor technique.

When I was 12 years old, I was 5 feet tall and practicing classical guitar on a 2" wide neck. I'm now 5'6" and play everything from 14" scale ukuleles with 1.3" nut width to a 35" scale 6-string bass with a 2.1" nut.

In fact, a lot of my recent material on that bass has been with a capo at the fifth fret in "Bass VI" tuning (E-E), playing chords and polyphonic parts. The neck is like 3" wide at that point and I'm doing chord shapes spanning all 6 strings with my tiny 5'6" small-women's-glove-hands.

What I'm trying to say is that holding the instrument at an ergonomic angle and working on stretching and not over-gripping are super important. One of my guitar teachers taught me that you should be able to lift your thumb off the neck at any time and maintain whatever chord or fingering you're playing at the time - you're pressing with your fingers, not squeezing with your thumb. It's tricky and I wouldn't want to try to play a song like that, but it's a great exercise to check if you're over-relying on your thumb.

Mygrip on acoustic and electric is different from classical, and I do pop the thumb over the top sometimes for certain fingerings that would otherwise not work.

I also concede that neck profile has an impact (D shaped shoulders on necks drive me nuts, but don't prevent me from being able to play), and my thickest necks do make my hand feel a bit more relaxed and comfortable, but I've never met a neck that "caused" cramping or pain unless I was doing something wrong ergonomically.

I have made some adjustments in my technique, ergonomics, but not enough I guess cause I still have issues with alot of necks. Have you tried the deep C yet?

Can you give me some tips that helped you play regular, 25.5 inch guitar necks?

[timtam]

If you want to hear irrational reasons for avoiding thick necks, mine is that when I was growing up all the cheap nasty guitars had thick necks and all the expensive ones had thin necks. Also part of the reason why I hate sunburst - all the cheap guitars were sunburst. In any case I always go for thin necks and avoid thick ones. Fortunately thin necks seem to work for me, but I haven't seriously tried thick ones. FWIW I'm tall on the bell curve (top decile) but not extreme-tall, and I have long fingers. So I should be fine with thick necks. But I doubt I'll be trying more of them anytime soon.

[mysticguitar]

If you want to hear irrational reasons for avoiding thick necks, mine is that when I was growing up all the cheap nasty guitars had thick necks and all the expensive ones had thin necks. Also part of the reason why I hate sunburst - all the cheap guitars were sunburst. In any case I always go for thin necks and avoid thick ones. Fortunately thin necks seem to work for me, but I haven't seriously tried thick ones. FWIW I'm tall on the bell curve (top decile) but not extreme-tall, and I have long fingers. So I should be fine with thick necks. But I doubt I'll be trying more of them anytime soon.

Well. I'd just like to say consider yourself blessed that you have those long skinny fingers, also it does seem counter intuitive for you to like thin necks.

[Embenny]

I have made some adjustments in my technique, ergonomics, but not enough I guess cause I still have issues with alot of necks. Have you tried the deep C yet?

Well, there are many basics that are hard to convey over text on the internet - one of the most important things is (assuming you play right-handed) for the left wrist to remain largely neutral. Oftentimes, people end up playing at an angle that forces the wrist to tilt to one side or twist - that not only sets you up for pain or RSI, it also takes the movement of your fingers out of their natural alignment with the fretboard.

There are, of course, many different ways to hold a guitar, but none of the sustainable ones involve significant flexion or deviation of the wrist in either plane. Doesn't matter whether you're watching Chet Atkins, Steve Vai, or Julian Bream.

Assuming the ergonomics of how you're sitting/standing and holding the guitar are ok, it then comes down to developing flexibility and dexterity through exercises. I grew up in the pre-Youtube era, so all my favourite exercises were collected from various guitar teachers and books over my formative years, but a quick search led me to some stuff like this, which is the type of thing I'm talking about. You can find exercises that focus on just two fingers at a time, as well as ones involving all 4 like that video. If the stretches are too difficult, start high up the fretboard and work your way downward as you improve.

I spent many an hour doing those exercises, just a few minutes a day as my warmup before a practice session. Like yoga, or any other exercise combining flexibility and strength, you'll steadily improve by just keeping at it.

Of course, there's no shame in enjoying short scale guitars. I love them. But there are instruments with bigger fretboards and longer scale lengths that call to me, and I enjoy pushing myself to play them. I had a fanned-fret baritone 12-string acoustic guitar built, and that thing is a workout, but it sounds glorious.

Edit to add: As for the deep C, sorry, I haven't personally played that neck profile.

[mysticguitar]

I have made some adjustments in my technique, ergonomics, but not enough I guess cause I still have issues with alot of necks. Have you tried the deep C yet?

Well, there are many basics that are hard to convey over text on the internet - one of the most important things is (assuming you play right-handed) for the left wrist to remain largely neutral. Oftentimes, people end up playing at an angle that forces the wrist to tilt to one side or twist - that not only sets you up for pain or RSI, it also takes the movement of your fingers out of their natural alignment with the fretboard.

There are, of course, many different ways to hold a guitar, but none of the sustainable ones involve significant flexion or deviation of the wrist in either plane. Doesn't matter whether you're watching Chet Atkins, Steve Vai, or Julian Bream.

Assuming the ergonomics of how you're sitting/standing and holding the guitar are ok, it then comes down to developing flexibility and dexterity through exercises. I grew up in the pre-Youtube era, so all my favourite exercises were collected from various guitar teachers and books over my formative years, but a quick search led me to some stuff like this, which is the type of thing I'm talking about. You can find exercises that focus on just two fingers at a time, as well as ones involving all 4 like that video. If the stretches are too difficult, start high up the fretboard and work your way downward as you improve.

I spent many an hour doing those exercises, just a few minutes a day as my warmup before a practice session. Like yoga, or any other exercise combining flexibility and strength, you'll steadily improve by just keeping at it.

Of course, there's no shame in enjoying short scale guitars. I love them. But there are instruments with bigger fretboards and longer scale lengths that call to me, and I enjoy pushing myself to play them. I had a fanned-fret baritone 12-string acoustic guitar built, and that thing is a workout, but it sounds glorious.

Edit to add: As for the deep C, sorry, I haven't personally played that neck profile.

Thanks I'll check those exercises out. My philosophy is that learning music is hard enough and I need all the help I can get, hence 24 inch scale but I guess you like a challenge.......I did buy the Jaguar and got free shipping including returns if I don't want it, also GC has a 180 day return policy, because of Covid, that's half a year.