Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Vendetagainst
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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Vendetagainst » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:38 pm

Veitchy wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:57 pm
loveinathens wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:10 pm
RIP to the folks at Stratosphere once these start going up on Reverb haha
I was actually going to keep an eye on Stratosphere for the tremolos and possibly the necks. I mean, if they're gouging less on Reverb though...
Lmaoo so was I I've been checking Darren Riley and Stratosphere every night for these. Haven't checked Reverb tho, that may be a good idea.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Veitchy » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:10 pm

Vendetagainst wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:38 pm
Veitchy wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:57 pm
loveinathens wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:10 pm
RIP to the folks at Stratosphere once these start going up on Reverb haha
I was actually going to keep an eye on Stratosphere for the tremolos and possibly the necks. I mean, if they're gouging less on Reverb though...
Lmaoo so was I I've been checking Darren Riley and Stratosphere every night for these. Haven't checked Reverb tho, that may be a good idea.
Honestly, assuming they come in not-ridiculously above AVRI units (around 100AUD +/-), I wouldn't bother looking at a Mastery or Descendent again. It's less about the range and more that the lock is really useful to me.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by unreal77 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:22 pm

If I can play Jimmy Page’s solo for “In the evening”, then its a good trem😄

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by alexpigment » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:40 pm

Veitchy wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:10 pm
Honestly, assuming they come in not-ridiculously above AVRI units (around 100AUD +/-), I wouldn't bother looking at a Mastery or Descendent again. It's less about the range and more that the lock is really useful to me.
Yep, that lock is extremely useful. Not so much in everyday use, but at least in the following ways:
1) Helps to expedite restringing, because the tension is not constantly adjusting when the lock is on.
2) Helps when changing to an alternate tuning (Drop D is fine, but anything else will require you to retune all the strings until it balances)
3) Allows you to keep the tuning stable during a string break situation. You can actually finish out a song if you turn the lock on.

All of these make the JM tremolo far superior to a Strat style trem imho. When you take the lock away, you just have a normal Fender trem with a more subtle range.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by timtam » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:57 pm

4)... ;)
Gives you a 'reference point' for the spring compression setting, the 'easy-in/easy-out' lock position, where the plate is roughly parallel to the top and the spring compression nominally neutral.
https://offset.guitars/the-goodies/sett ... lo-system/
Image

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by alexpigment » Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:21 pm

Good point timtam. Without a lock, the ideal position is a bit of a guessing game outside of just having the arm's base 90 degrees from the body.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Veitchy » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:11 pm

It's actually such a good design if you spend, like, 10 minutes working out how it works. Leo got so much right with it.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by adamrobertt » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:59 am

Veitchy wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:11 pm
It's actually such a good design if you spend, like, 10 minutes working out how it works. Leo got so much right with it.
It's a great design. IMO his biggest design mistakes with the offset vibrato/bridge are small but not insignificant: 1) the baseplate screws should have never been located beneath the strings, and it would have been trivial to move them to in between, or to at least countersink the screws or use smaller screws, 2) the collet should have had a set screw for tension adjustment on the arm and 3) the bridge should have always used the mustang style saddles, not the threaded ones.

If you fix those three things, it's a perfect and trouble free setup imo

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Vendetagainst » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:28 am

adamrobertt wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:59 am
Veitchy wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:11 pm
It's actually such a good design if you spend, like, 10 minutes working out how it works. Leo got so much right with it.
It's a great design. IMO his biggest design mistakes with the offset vibrato/bridge are small but not insignificant: 1) the baseplate screws should have never been located beneath the strings, and it would have been trivial to move them to in between, or to at least countersink the screws or use smaller screws, 2) the collet should have had a set screw for tension adjustment on the arm and 3) the bridge should have always used the mustang style saddles, not the threaded ones.

If you fix those three things, it's a perfect and trouble free setup imo
I think the biggest flaw is that with some offsets the grounding wire is attached to the collet, which is terrible. Having an electrical connection on a moving part is pretty bad. The grounding wire on my JM disconnected, and I have to fix that when I change strings next.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by andy_tchp » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:20 am

Vendetagainst wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:28 am
I think the biggest flaw is that with some offsets the grounding wire is attached to the collet, which is terrible. Having an electrical connection on a moving part is pretty bad. The grounding wire on my JM disconnected, and I have to fix that when I change strings next.
Wait, what? Which models have the wire attached to the collet? And what method do they use to attach it?

The traditional 'wire through to the vibrato cavity' method simply has the wire wedged down between the plate and the top of the guitar, secured in place once the (6) vibrato fasteners are tightened down.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:12 am

Yeah, I was wondering. I've never seen or heard of that.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Vendetagainst » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:03 am

andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:20 am
Vendetagainst wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:28 am
I think the biggest flaw is that with some offsets the grounding wire is attached to the collet, which is terrible. Having an electrical connection on a moving part is pretty bad. The grounding wire on my JM disconnected, and I have to fix that when I change strings next.
Wait, what? Which models have the wire attached to the collet? And what method do they use to attach it?

The traditional 'wire through to the vibrato cavity' method simply has the wire wedged down between the plate and the top of the guitar, secured in place once the (6) vibrato fasteners are tightened down.
Huh weird, both me and my friend's JM (AM Pro I) has it. I guess I'll try that next time. That would make WAY more sense lol

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by loveinathens » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:44 am

Vendetagainst wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:28 am
adamrobertt wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:59 am
Veitchy wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:11 pm
It's actually such a good design if you spend, like, 10 minutes working out how it works. Leo got so much right with it.
It's a great design. IMO his biggest design mistakes with the offset vibrato/bridge are small but not insignificant: 1) the baseplate screws should have never been located beneath the strings, and it would have been trivial to move them to in between, or to at least countersink the screws or use smaller screws, 2) the collet should have had a set screw for tension adjustment on the arm and 3) the bridge should have always used the mustang style saddles, not the threaded ones.

If you fix those three things, it's a perfect and trouble free setup imo
I think the biggest flaw is that with some offsets the grounding wire is attached to the collet, which is terrible. Having an electrical connection on a moving part is pretty bad. The grounding wire on my JM disconnected, and I have to fix that when I change strings next.
That's odd. Most offsets I've come across usually have the ground wire on the thimble or under the trem plate.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Vendetagainst » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:56 am

loveinathens wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:44 am
Vendetagainst wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:28 am
adamrobertt wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:59 am


It's a great design. IMO his biggest design mistakes with the offset vibrato/bridge are small but not insignificant: 1) the baseplate screws should have never been located beneath the strings, and it would have been trivial to move them to in between, or to at least countersink the screws or use smaller screws, 2) the collet should have had a set screw for tension adjustment on the arm and 3) the bridge should have always used the mustang style saddles, not the threaded ones.

If you fix those three things, it's a perfect and trouble free setup imo
I think the biggest flaw is that with some offsets the grounding wire is attached to the collet, which is terrible. Having an electrical connection on a moving part is pretty bad. The grounding wire on my JM disconnected, and I have to fix that when I change strings next.
That's odd. Most offsets I've come across usually have the ground wire on the thimble or under the trem plate.
Yeah, for some bizarre reason I thought to screw the wire on the collet for mine, but those other two alternatives make much more sense. I think what confused me was the fact that my Warmoth trem came with one of those teeth, and I saw a diagram somewhere that said to screw it onto the collet while I was building my guitar.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by andy_tchp » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:51 pm

Vendetagainst wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:03 am
andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:20 am
Vendetagainst wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:28 am
I think the biggest flaw is that with some offsets the grounding wire is attached to the collet, which is terrible. Having an electrical connection on a moving part is pretty bad. The grounding wire on my JM disconnected, and I have to fix that when I change strings next.
Wait, what? Which models have the wire attached to the collet? And what method do they use to attach it?

The traditional 'wire through to the vibrato cavity' method simply has the wire wedged down between the plate and the top of the guitar, secured in place once the (6) vibrato fasteners are tightened down.
Huh weird, both me and my friend's JM (AM Pro I) has it. I guess I'll try that next time. That would make WAY more sense lol
So how were they attached to the collet? The only way I could see that working would be with a large ring terminal secured by the collet itself, which would actually make a good mechanical connection in spite of the movement.

Were these instruments purchased brand new, as all pictures of American Professional Jazzmaster bodies from the likes of Stratosphere/Reverb show the stranded wire pressed down adjacent to the treble-side hole like this?
Image
Image
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.

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