The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by tribi9 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:46 pm

Telecaster parts on other guitars are so over done...

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Powdered Toast Man » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:06 pm

I think the AO line is a great example. Personally I love them. They're the perfect mix of vintage tone, looks, and construction, but with some modern updates make them appeal to a broader spectrum of players. They're basically AV guitars except they have 9.5" radius boards and taller frets. But omg some of the purists think this is an abomination! They're very upset you can't get a vintage spec model of any given era.

I find them easier to play because of the radius and frets. I get fighting the guitar is some people's mojo but I'd rather not.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Sauerkraut » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:41 am

On a side note, wiring a Strat to have master volume + master tone and a blend knob - to blend in the bridge or neck pickup depending on the position of the 5-way switch - makes a lot more sense to me than standard wiring with the two tone pots. I suspect the only reason that continued to be the standard is this vintage correct obsession. Did Leo Fender stick with that odd wiring at G&L?

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:08 am

blunderbuss wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:56 am
I’m in the “if it’s good I dig it” camp. ... But we all have our hills to die on.
For me, the difference is simple: people who have their own personal preferences, and people who think that all things (guitar or otherwise) should be covered by blanket preferences. I don't care for people's opinions when it gets in the way of other people's opinions. Discussions can be fun, and as long as it's a "live and let live" kind of mentality, it is all good to me.

I think technologically speaking, there's so much cool stuff out there, that I personally don't feel that everything needs to be vintage correct. I agree that some of the early engineers like Leo got a lot of things right, because there was actual engineering put into these things, instead of just trying to reduce the cost on the company making stuff. I think if you compared what Leo was doing to modern groups of people who innovate, you'll find more similarities than not.

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:21 pm
Can we just like, agree that vintage and modern specs all have their place, that sometimes we want the blunt-instrument approach of the former and sometimes we want the precise-scalpel of the latter, and that this stuff's all personal preference and who the fuck cares if it's somebody else's gear anyway?
Well put :)

blunderbuss wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:04 pm
This feels like as good of a time as any to say I’m planning to build my first guitar this year for funsies in lockdown.

I think I’m going with an Transparent Purple Offset Telecaster with red guard and roasted maple fretboard.

I’ll use a three saddle telecaster bridge. 😹😹😹
That actually sounds awesome. I'm not sure how the purple and red would go together, but purple with roasted maple sounds sexy as fuck.

Sauerkraut wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:41 am
On a side note, wiring a Strat to have master volume + master tone and a blend knob - to blend in the bridge or neck pickup depending on the position of the 5-way switch - makes a lot more sense to me than standard wiring with the two tone pots. I suspect the only reason that continued to be the standard is this vintage correct obsession. Did Leo Fender stick with that odd wiring at G&L?
I never understood the two tone pot thing either. I think having 3 holes on the guard could lend itself well to a PTB circuit (something Leo DID incorporate at G&L). Or, master volume, master tone, and the jack, so you don't have to use the Strat jack plate :D
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by blunderbuss » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:08 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:08 am
blunderbuss wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:56 am
I’m in the “if it’s good I dig it” camp. ... But we all have our hills to die on.
For me, the difference is simple: people who have their own personal preferences, and people who think that all things (guitar or otherwise) should be covered by blanket preferences. I don't care for people's opinions when it gets in the way of other people's opinions. Discussions can be fun, and as long as it's a "live and let live" kind of mentality, it is all good to me.
Absolutely! I mean, the “let people like things” quote comes to mind. I’m far more interested in reading about what people are interested in rather than what they hate. World has enough hate in it already.
Ryan

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by beninma » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:33 am

Regarding the Strat Leo Fender absolutely fixed that at G&L... pretty much every Strat style model that G&L makes/made has the 3-knobs setup as Volume/Tone/Bass as you get further from the switch. It makes way more sense than the normal Strat thing where the bridge pickup has no tone and sounds super brittle & thin. I don't really like Strats but if I played one of the G&L ones maybe I'd really like it due to those controls.

I am really fine with everything, it makes no sense to be overly conservative.. I even like bastardized guitars that use Tele controls. I like the Reverends that do so. The Tele body shape is nothing special IMO... it's the bridge & pickups & scale that make that guitar what it is. Put a belly carve on it, put an arm contour on it, change the shape completely, do a Jazzcaster, etc.. it is all good as long as the person actually playing the guitar likes it.

There are only so many different switch designs. The Strat style pickup switch is probably my least favorite.. so if the guitar is not a Tele but has Tele controls that's fine.

Only thing with the Tele plate that stinks is only 2 pots. I think a lot of guitars benefit from more pots.

I can see batteries in the guitar being annoying but I'd still like to try the crazy Fishman Fluence pickups, Tele or not.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Bradley-Jazz » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:42 am

blunderbuss wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:08 am
Sauerkraut wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:41 am
On a side note, wiring a Strat to have master volume + master tone and a blend knob - to blend in the bridge or neck pickup depending on the position of the 5-way switch - makes a lot more sense to me than standard wiring with the two tone pots. I suspect the only reason that continued to be the standard is this vintage correct obsession. Did Leo Fender stick with that odd wiring at G&L?
I never understood the two tone pot thing either. I think having 3 holes on the guard could lend itself well to a PTB circuit (something Leo DID incorporate at G&L). Or, master volume, master tone, and the jack, so you don't have to use the Strat jack plate :D
I have my Strat wired with a PTB and a push-pull that gives neck and bridge, and series options. It's a good set up. I tried a blend pot for the middle pickup and found it too fiddly for my tastes. AND I also like the way that this mod hasn't changed how the guitar looks - its a CIJ "57" model, so yes, I'm very happy to have something looking quite "vintage correct", and I find the 7.25 radius comfortable. But I absolutely want to see things move forward and people to be able to enjoy their guitars however suits them.

This site is full of fantastic variations, developments, some great new things, and a few very lovable "abominations", as well as the classics. That's why it's such a great forum. As you guys are saying, as long as it's live and let live, it's all good.
Stop me if you think you've heard this one before....

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by blunderbuss » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:01 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:08 am
blunderbuss wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:04 pm
This feels like as good of a time as any to say I’m planning to build my first guitar this year for funsies in lockdown.

I think I’m going with an Transparent Purple Offset Telecaster with red guard and roasted maple fretboard.

I’ll use a three saddle telecaster bridge. 😹😹😹
That actually sounds awesome. I'm not sure how the purple and red would go together, but purple with roasted maple sounds sexy as fuck.
By the way, here's the mockup I've been working off of. I'm using Warmoth to check things out but I'll end up ordering through MJT. It's a bit premature now, but once I have the body actually in hand I'll start a build thread. But this shows how well (at least to me) red and purple go together! I think it's offensively garish in a good way.

Image
Ryan

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Powdered Toast Man » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:07 am

blunderbuss wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:01 am
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:08 am
blunderbuss wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:04 pm
This feels like as good of a time as any to say I’m planning to build my first guitar this year for funsies in lockdown.

I think I’m going with an Transparent Purple Offset Telecaster with red guard and roasted maple fretboard.

I’ll use a three saddle telecaster bridge. 😹😹😹
That actually sounds awesome. I'm not sure how the purple and red would go together, but purple with roasted maple sounds sexy as fuck.
By the way, here's the mockup I've been working off of. I'm using Warmoth to check things out but I'll end up ordering through MJT. It's a bit premature now, but once I have the body actually in hand I'll start a build thread. But this shows how well (at least to me) red and purple go together! I think it's offensively garish in a good way.

Image
Nice Tele. My only thought is that without the offset vibrato tailpiece, the Jazzmaster body looks kinda funny because that's a lot of real estate behind the bridge for no real reason. Are these JM style Teles kinda heavy as a result?

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Powdered Toast Man » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 am

Sauerkraut wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:41 am
On a side note, wiring a Strat to have master volume + master tone and a blend knob - to blend in the bridge or neck pickup depending on the position of the 5-way switch - makes a lot more sense to me than standard wiring with the two tone pots. I suspect the only reason that continued to be the standard is this vintage correct obsession. Did Leo Fender stick with that odd wiring at G&L?
I actually like having one tone knob for the bridge/middle and the other for the neck. I find the Strat bridge pickup excellent but it needs a tone knob. But the neck doesn't require nearly as much roll off so it's less knob fiddling once I find the settings for each pickup selection.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by blunderbuss » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:19 am

Powdered Toast Man wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:07 am
Nice Tele. My only thought is that without the offset vibrato tailpiece, the Jazzmaster body looks kinda funny because that's a lot of real estate behind the bridge for no real reason. Are these JM style Teles kinda heavy as a result?
Oh I totally agree. It's a lot of empty space and makes you appreciate the design of offsets that much more. It's not necessarily my favorite. However I wanted to keep the project scope minimal since this would be a first build. So when I'm going through things I keep resolving to "keep it simple, stupid." I can see adding a Bigsby down the line just for the hell of it. But the goal for now is to just understand things on a very simple level and Telecasters are very simple.

Anyway, to the original post: vintage correct is great if you like vintage correct. I think it's pretty easy to tell that I think tinkering is more fun.
Ryan

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by zenarcade » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:45 am

I really don't mind non vintage correct offsets. Assembled and modded a lot of stuff over the years. I also think improvements like slightly bigger frets, modern radius are cool. I also kinda hate the original bridge, though made it work in some cases, but prefer a Mastery or Staytrem. But for me a Jazzmaster or a Jag needs to have the trem and the Rhythm Circuit. I think the trem makes these guitars special and without it, it is not really a Jazzmaster.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Mechanical Birds » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:41 am

Holding a stock AV65 back to back against a Thin Skin I prefer the big frets and radius so much more. I understand that’s a preference thing so it seems like it’d be easy to just offer the guitars in both configurations but I’m not a manufacturer so maybe that’s actually hard.

Goofy shit like Gibson not using a volume or whatever just seems ridiculous to me though. That the design flaw, which is what it is, was held intact in response to pushback for... reasons... just makes me mad lol.

Either way I’m kinda indifferent. I would definitely rather they go back to specific year reissues because there seem to be significant differences over time that it’d be a warranted thing for them to do instead of trying to apply a whole decade to a guitar that changed significantly, like 3 different times on Jagurs and Jazzmasters ffs, but whatever. Fender is gonna Fender

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Sauerkraut » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:10 pm

zenarcade wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:45 am
But for me a Jazzmaster or a Jag needs to have the trem and the Rhythm Circuit. I think the trem makes these guitars special and without it, it is not really a Jazzmaster.
Agree on the trem, though if the panorama version is indeed an improvement, I’ll take it. Something like a Strat trem really does change the concept and sound too much for me to still consider it a jm or jag though.

Disagree on the rhythm circuit. It makes more sense as a series/parallel switch for me, plus PTB tone controls. But it’s still very much a Jazzmaster to me.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by alex1fly » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:13 pm

Futuron wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:32 am
Absolutely they (some of them) do. Go to places like tdpri and you'll see plenty of objection to the occasional contours on the back. The new professional series incorporates a contour on the neck heel, I saw complaints about that not belonging on a Strat because the guitar was perfect in the first place, why ruin it (with such mod-cons...) ::)

Yes, let's all drive our cars without power steering, air conditioning and the like ::)
TDPRI is hilarious. It has a lot of great information, but there are so many members that threads derail quickly. I started going there when Telecaster shopping a few months ago, but had to stop visiting because you know that Leo got it right the first time, if it was built after CBS bought Fender then it isn't a Telecaster, and how dare you even consider changing anything on your Telecaster!

At the same time, while the attitude can be annoying, I can also say that by following pieces of the purists' advice, I've been finding way more tones and utility in my Telecaster than I would have if I'd started looking towards modifications to achieve my tonal goals, which is ultimately more satisfying for me at this time.

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