OffsetGuitars.com

I have been really enjoying my Player HH JM. It has its quirks, most of which I have sorted out. But I love the way it feels and plays - it is a bit like a gateway drug into the world of Jazzmasters.

I am interested in upgrading to a "real" JM, with the thought that I will keep the player and upgrade the humbuckers.

I have a budget of around 1000 €, ideally would like to spend less. Which leads me to the Vintera range. Problem is, I love a sunburst, and the only option in this range with sunburst is the modded vintera with adjusto-matic bridge. Other than that it looks ideal. From reading up online, it seems the an AOM on a JM is like the devil's work. And not easy to swap out for staytrem or similar (I don't want to buy a new guitar and then start drilling it).

So my questions for all you officianados are;

- Is the AOM bridge really that bad on a JM? And if so why? Or is it just that it isn't a JM bridge? It surely can't be terrible if Fender have put it on a 100 € guitar?
- Are there any other models I am missing?

I could stretch to the American Performer price range, but that's got a bloody strat bridge on it which doesn't interest me in the slightest.

And I know 2nd hand is an option but I live in the middle of nowhere in France and I am nervous about buying 2nd hand over the internet.

I am interested to hear your opinions...

Also, I am not actually much of a trem user - does that make the AOM less of an issue?

From what I've read, the radius mismatched is the biggest issue... Apart from that, I wouldn't bother switching it since you don't use the tremolo that much.

It wouldn't fit my playing style because I'm really into palm muting and using the tremolo bar, so everything must be running smooth.

aliendawg wrote: ↑

Sat May 08, 2021 9:33 am

From what I've read, the radius mismatched is the biggest issue...

I didn't know about that issue. Is it a different radius to the fretboard? Wow, that is an odd thing for Fender to do...

It's bad. A Tune-o-Matic style bridge (which is what the AOM is) is the worst option for a Jazzmaster for a few reasons. One is the radius mismatch (I think they're somewhere between the 12'' and 16'' range, no Fender is that flat), but they're also bad for other reasons.

The saddles are poorly designed (the V shape is really not great for tuning stability, this goes for Gibsons, too) and basically makes any trem use out of the question IMO. You said you don't use the vibrato very often which could probably help in that regard, though. Basically the V saddles and the fixed bridge are a nightmare for staying in tune with any vibrato use at all. I don't know how J. Mascis gets away with it.

Some dudes like them, including J. Mascis, but I think the only reason why they ever caught on at all is because it was the only alternative (aside from a Mustang bridge) for a long time.

Something to consider for the AoM is that you can get replicas of the old Mosrite-style roller bridges which are a 9.5" radius -- and, as the name would suggest, have roller rather than fixed saddles, which is way better for trem use. They run like $30-60 on Ebay depending on seller and the relative position of Venus, but I hear they're pretty decent.

As is, the AoM is a pretty sketchy solution for a problem that doesn't really exist, and in exchange for that "solution", it gives you a half-dozen other issues.

I have a classic player Jazzmaster with an AOM bridge. I constantly get “pings” when using the trem and Based on what I’m seeing I think it’s the AOM bridge. I just ordered a roller bridge from guitar fetish, when I get that I will let you know how that goes. I had an epiphone SG that had a roller bridge on it. I much prefer roller bridges for palm muting too

adamrobertt wrote: ↑

Sat May 08, 2021 10:38 am

It's bad. A Tune-o-Matic style bridge (which is what the AOM is) is the worst option for a Jazzmaster for a few reasons. One is the radius mismatch (I think they're somewhere between the 12'' and 16'' range, no Fender is that flat), but they're also bad for other reasons.

The saddles are poorly designed (the V shape is really not great for tuning stability, this goes for Gibsons, too) and basically makes any trem use out of the question IMO. You said you don't use the vibrato very often which could probably help in that regard, though. Basically the V saddles and the fixed bridge are a nightmare for staying in tune with any vibrato use at all. I don't know how J. Mascis gets away with it.

Some dudes like them, including J. Mascis, but I think the only reason why they ever caught on at all is because it was the only alternative (aside from a Mustang bridge) for a long time.

I don't have a skin in the game, but I think you've really overstated the problems with this type of bridge. I have a Hofner Verythin with an Epiphone-style import Tune-o-matic bridge and a Bigsby that I use a lot and with considerable vigor.

That guitar stays in tune for-fucking-ever. I can't even remember the last time I had to tune it. Normal (non-locking) slotted tuning keys too.

No other guitar I've ever owned has even remotely compared to the tuning stability of that one. It's strung with flatwound 12s in standard tuning.

Many guitarists favor the playing action of a guitar with the bridge radius slightly flatter than that of the fingerboard, and some luthiers recommend it. Now, that being said, a 9.5" board with a 12" TOM bridge might be too much of a mismatch and may create some buzzing on the middle strings if the action is set really low...but JMs don't always perform well with low action regardless.

I had a roller tune o matic style bridge on a Mascis JM body, that helped to not rake the strings across the sharp V saddles.

I don't know why the radius mismatch myth persists, year after year, on a board dedicated to Offsets.

This was answered like 7 years ago and posted on this board.

Hello,
I’m sorry for the delay with this response, but I was waiting on assistance from my parts department about this. Below is their response and I hope it helps!
“The bridge has a 10.5",…which is a tighter radius than most of that style. Many have a 12” radius even when fingerboards have a 9.5” radius. Guitar builders have done that for many, many years. It preserves the ease of fretting with the left hand,…and makes picking easier with the right. Kind of a faux compound radius.

Thanks,
Brett
FMIC Consumer Relations
17600 N. Perimeter Dr. Ste. 100
Scottsdale, AZ 85255

The radius mismatch on AOMs is 1", and plenty of techs set the bridge radius slightly flatter than the fretboard radius on TOM style saddles, so if anything, it's wrong in the right direction, not that anybody would ever notice a 10.5" vs 9.5" mismatch. They're also TOM saddles, which can be filed into whatever radius you please.

I don't like knife edges on vibrato bridge personally, but lots of people get on with them just fine, and OP doesn't even use the vibrato much.

An AOM is just fine for their purposes. Maybe even better than a floating bridge.

bessieboporbach wrote: ↑

Sat May 08, 2021 12:59 pm

adamrobertt wrote: ↑

Sat May 08, 2021 10:38 am

It's bad. A Tune-o-Matic style bridge (which is what the AOM is) is the worst option for a Jazzmaster for a few reasons. One is the radius mismatch (I think they're somewhere between the 12'' and 16'' range, no Fender is that flat), but they're also bad for other reasons.

The saddles are poorly designed (the V shape is really not great for tuning stability, this goes for Gibsons, too) and basically makes any trem use out of the question IMO. You said you don't use the vibrato very often which could probably help in that regard, though. Basically the V saddles and the fixed bridge are a nightmare for staying in tune with any vibrato use at all. I don't know how J. Mascis gets away with it.

Some dudes like them, including J. Mascis, but I think the only reason why they ever caught on at all is because it was the only alternative (aside from a Mustang bridge) for a long time.

I don't have a skin in the game, but I think you've really overstated the problems with this type of bridge. I have a Hofner Verythin with an Epiphone-style import Tune-o-matic bridge and a Bigsby that I use a lot and with considerable vigor.

That guitar stays in tune for-fucking-ever. I can't even remember the last time I had to tune it. Normal (non-locking) slotted tuning keys too.

No other guitar I've ever owned has even remotely compared to the tuning stability of that one. It's strung with flatwound 12s in standard tuning.

Many guitarists favor the playing action of a guitar with the bridge radius slightly flatter than that of the fingerboard, and some luthiers recommend it. Now, that being said, a 9.5" board with a 12" TOM bridge might be too much of a mismatch and may create some buzzing on the middle strings if the action is set really low...but JMs don't always perform well with low action regardless.

It’s because you’re using flats. There’s nothing to catch on the saddles. The problem is with roundwound strings catching.

The bridge on my Squier CV Jag broke (weird story) and while I was waiting for Fender to offer a solution I threw an AOM style bridge I had laying around on it. I was surprised that I noticed no problems playing the guitar despite the mismatch of the radius. Also, trem use was no problem at all either and that bridge is still on the guitar. Kind of a nice change of pace from the mastery bridges I have on my more expensive offsets. I guess, good enough for Cobain and Mascis, good enough for me!

For people who use the trem, the strings have to slide over a fixed bridge like the AOM/TOM/Mastery, as the trem changes their length. The opposite of the traditional rocking bridge, where the strings must "grip" and rock the bridge with trem use.

Because of that fundamental difference, a fixed bridge requires low friction at the string-saddle interface, while a rocking bridge requires high friction. String-saddle friction comes down to string tension, string break angle, and the string-saddle contact area. To get friction low with a fixed bridge, using lower string gauges and shallower break angle work best (why Fender placed the trem closer on some AOM guitars, increasing break angle, is anyone's guess). That then leaves the string-saddle contact area - the larger it is, the lower the friction. AOM's have a relatively small string-saddle contact area, which tends to push friction high, rather than low as it should be.

So for trem users, an AOM is a curious design choice. Most likely it was chosen by Fender simply to mimic the misguided techs some decades ago who put fixed bridges on offsets in an attempt to solve their "problems".

But since there are three ways to get string-saddle friction low - gauge, string break angle (shim->bridge height), and contact area - it's possible for trem users to get friction low enough just with string gauge and break angle, despite small contact area. You can also lubricate the string-saddle interface on a fixed bridge, which you never do on a rocking bridge. Or use a roller TOM to reduce friction (greater string-saddle contact area, whether saddles actually roll or not).

But if you don't use the trem, an AOM on an offset is functionally not much different to a tuneomatic on a Gibson with shallow break angle (eg trapeze tailpiece).

I can't speak to this too much but I briefly owned a Thurston Moore jazzmaster that I couldn't quite get on with. The radius mismatch felt pretty severe to me on that one - 7.25" to 12" is a big jump. It felt like to have the strings uniformly low meant the top and bottom string were higher action than the middle strings, and would buzz to shit whenever fretted. May have been a poor set up, or just a guitar that needed work, but that was enough to put me off from that. Switching over to a Mastery would have likely fixed it, but it's long gone. I know Sonic Youth would use adjustomatic bridges for tuning stability, and with all the droning open strings they used, a shitty setup is probably more manageable if you only have to set it up to be playable on a couple of strings. That said, I am no guitar tech, so I can't say for sure.

My good friend had a Squier J Mascis JM that played really well that he loved, and those are beloved by many people. But again, maybe the radius difference on that guitar wasn't as dramatic.

After reading all that, I think I will steer clear of AOM models and see if I can find one with a rocking bridge (which I can swap out for a staytrem). Its complicated, this guitar buying business...