In defence of the American Original
- Powdered Toast Man
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In defence of the American Original
Boy as a long time TDPRI member I thought the Tele community was bad for being traditionalist but they've got nothing on the offset community.
I see a lot of harping on the AO series. Basically it seems a good segment of the guitar community has written them off because they're not reissues.
But they're great guitars.
I'd venture to say that they're better than great - they're fantastic guitars.
I love vintage looks, I love vintage sounds, I love nitro finishes, but man do I not love vintage playability. I've never gotten along with a 7.25" board (they're FINE but I've always reached for other guitars first). And tiny vintage frets? Ugh.
So here's a series that takes all the good stuff about vintage guitars, and then basically uses the same neck specs as 95% of the Custom Shop guitars by putting a 9.5" radius and taller frets. That's it! They're basically CS spec guitars!
My love affair with the AO series started last year when I picked up a used AO60's Tele. That guitar changed everything I thought I liked about a guitar neck. Soon after I sought out an AO60's Strat. And then I sold off my TVL JM and got an AO60's Jaguar. A few months ago I was able to sell my Highway1 Strat and turn around and buy a used AO50's Strat for only $200 more. Now I've got 4 of these guitars and they are all AWESOME. The Jaguar in particular is absolutely phenomenal. And I'll tell you guys, every other friend/player that I've gotten together with has picked up one of these guitars and within 60 seconds they turn to me with a look of delight on their face and say, "This is a great guitar!" I own 10 electrics and I might as well just have these 4 because they're the only ones I reach for.
So basically I see the AO's as the greatest hits of the AV series with a few tweaks that make them basically the smart man's Custom Shop guitars.
I see a lot of harping on the AO series. Basically it seems a good segment of the guitar community has written them off because they're not reissues.
But they're great guitars.
I'd venture to say that they're better than great - they're fantastic guitars.
I love vintage looks, I love vintage sounds, I love nitro finishes, but man do I not love vintage playability. I've never gotten along with a 7.25" board (they're FINE but I've always reached for other guitars first). And tiny vintage frets? Ugh.
So here's a series that takes all the good stuff about vintage guitars, and then basically uses the same neck specs as 95% of the Custom Shop guitars by putting a 9.5" radius and taller frets. That's it! They're basically CS spec guitars!
My love affair with the AO series started last year when I picked up a used AO60's Tele. That guitar changed everything I thought I liked about a guitar neck. Soon after I sought out an AO60's Strat. And then I sold off my TVL JM and got an AO60's Jaguar. A few months ago I was able to sell my Highway1 Strat and turn around and buy a used AO50's Strat for only $200 more. Now I've got 4 of these guitars and they are all AWESOME. The Jaguar in particular is absolutely phenomenal. And I'll tell you guys, every other friend/player that I've gotten together with has picked up one of these guitars and within 60 seconds they turn to me with a look of delight on their face and say, "This is a great guitar!" I own 10 electrics and I might as well just have these 4 because they're the only ones I reach for.
So basically I see the AO's as the greatest hits of the AV series with a few tweaks that make them basically the smart man's Custom Shop guitars.
- adamrobertt
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Re: In defence of the American Original
People are dumb babies about vintage specs. A 9.5'' board really doesn't feel that different from a 7.25'' board. The frets really aren't that much bigger, either. Nitro isn't some magic elixir that is required for good tone (although the AO series is finished in nitro as far as I know).
The AO series is ultimately really similar to the much loved Thin Skin series from Wildwood, minus the matching headstock and the "ultra thin" finish.
But sure, maybe if you hold out for a guitar with the exact same specs as your fav guitar hero from the 60s you'll magically become him.
The AO series is ultimately really similar to the much loved Thin Skin series from Wildwood, minus the matching headstock and the "ultra thin" finish.
But sure, maybe if you hold out for a guitar with the exact same specs as your fav guitar hero from the 60s you'll magically become him.
- Embenny
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Re: In defence of the American Original
Do people harp on them? They're amazing guitars, they're just not perfect vintage replicas (nor are they claimed as such), and some people want perfect vintage replicas.
I forsee people complaining that the AO were discontinued if they are, especially if the Ultra/AmPro become the only USA JM models.
I forsee people complaining that the AO were discontinued if they are, especially if the Ultra/AmPro become the only USA JM models.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- DavidG
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Re: In defence of the American Original
I'm with you on that. As you say, they probably don't get a fair crack because of the range they replaced. There's talk of them being discontinued soon, and I wouldn't be surprised to see their used value go through the roof if that happens. Basically Fender CS type specs in an affordable line.
I've got an AO 50's strat in aztec gold, easily the best strat I've ever owned. I had one of the Jags and that too was probably the best Jag I've ever owned.
Really there should be room in Fenders catalogue for the AO and AV, then everybody would be happy. They could do that easily, but they don't. Probably doesn't make marketing sense to have all options available at the same time. As soon as something is discontinued everyone wishes for it to come back.
I've got an AO 50's strat in aztec gold, easily the best strat I've ever owned. I had one of the Jags and that too was probably the best Jag I've ever owned.
Really there should be room in Fenders catalogue for the AO and AV, then everybody would be happy. They could do that easily, but they don't. Probably doesn't make marketing sense to have all options available at the same time. As soon as something is discontinued everyone wishes for it to come back.
Last edited by DavidG on Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- graceless
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Re: In defence of the American Original
I adore my AO 60s Jag. I have a '65 Jag as well, and love them both for different reasons. The AO 60s feels a lot more solid, is much more reliable, and I don't feel like I'm going to break it every time I pick it up, but the '65 feels like a perfectly worn in glove and just sounds so...so good. Love them both for different reasons.
In the end, the guitar really has nothing to do with it. Guarantee the best players in the world could switch from their original vintage offset, pick up a jackson Star or a squire affinity and still sound 1. probably the same and 2. absolutely incredible.
Vintage snobbery is the worst. But people want to justify a purchase and feel good about it, so, they can get pretty venomous in the process.
In the end, the guitar really has nothing to do with it. Guarantee the best players in the world could switch from their original vintage offset, pick up a jackson Star or a squire affinity and still sound 1. probably the same and 2. absolutely incredible.
Vintage snobbery is the worst. But people want to justify a purchase and feel good about it, so, they can get pretty venomous in the process.
- vistavision
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Re: In defence of the American Original
Fender's 4 year refresh for model lines comes due for the AO in Jan '22. Someone in another thread (who IIRC works in a gtr shop?) mentioned something about a return to AV.
I'm sure some Fender dealer in '64 looked at the new Duo-Sonic II and thought, "That's not a Duo-Sonic. That's a Mustang".
- Zeus
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Re: In defence of the American Original
I like a lot about the AO series: I like the 9.5 radius, I like the poly base coat (less unnecessary paint wear is good!) and I like (most of) the colours chosen so far.
(At the risk of being a broken record on this point, I still can't stand those frets however.)
(At the risk of being a broken record on this point, I still can't stand those frets however.)
- Surfysonic
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Re: In defence of the American Original
I'm cool with either - love my '63 Jag, '66 Mustang, AV '65 Strat, and Johnny Marr Jag (all with 7.25" radius necks) and also very much love my AO '60s JM and my other 9.50" radius neck-equipped guitars (Squier J Mascis JM, Squier VM Jag, Squier VM Mustang, Squier CV '70s Jag, Squier CV '60s Jazzmasters (got 2), Squier CV '50s Strat) - all fantastic keepers...even though I should unload at least one of my Squier CV '60s Jazzmasters.
The doofus formerly known as Snorre...
- schoolie
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Re: In defence of the American Original
The only thing that I hate about my AO JM is the angled neck pocket. I had to shim the back of the pocket to get the bridge lower. However it was setup perfectly, and frets and nut were perfect-- I couldn't find any flaws. Much better QC than the AVRI 62 line.
- Embenny
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Re: In defence of the American Original
Oh, that'll go over well.vistavision wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:03 pmFender's 4 year refresh for model lines comes due for the AO in Jan '22. Someone in another thread (who IIRC works in a gtr shop?) mentioned something about a return to AV.
Brace for a price hike, though. Vintage guitars are insane right now and AV65s and AVRIs are selling for more used than they ever did new. Sigh.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- BoringPostcards
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Re: In defence of the American Original
I loved the AO Jazzmaster, that I tried out at a shop. I would have bought it, if I was able to at the time. The Jaguar is what I'd really like to hunt down eventually.
I used to care about vintage specs, but I fell out of love with 7.25". I agree that the difference between 7.25 and 9.5 is not drastic whatsoever, I just prefer 9.5" and flatter these days.
I used to care about vintage specs, but I fell out of love with 7.25". I agree that the difference between 7.25 and 9.5 is not drastic whatsoever, I just prefer 9.5" and flatter these days.
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.
- vistavision
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Re: In defence of the American Original
Oh, that reminds me, Fender prices go up the first week of August.mbene085 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:19 pmOh, that'll go over well.vistavision wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:03 pmFender's 4 year refresh for model lines comes due for the AO in Jan '22. Someone in another thread (who IIRC works in a gtr shop?) mentioned something about a return to AV.
Brace for a price hike, though. Vintage guitars are insane right now and AV65s and AVRIs are selling for more used than they ever did new. Sigh.
I'm sure some Fender dealer in '64 looked at the new Duo-Sonic II and thought, "That's not a Duo-Sonic. That's a Mustang".
- BlueMelody
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Re: In defence of the American Original
I never really heard any harping on them or anyone writing them off? Seems to me like they’ve always been a very popular line, even compared to the AVRI’s they replaced. But yes, great guitars…I’ve owned a few.
- Larry Mal
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Re: In defence of the American Original
I'm trying to remember if I complained about them at any point, really, and I'm a guy who loves the Fender vintage specs.
I guess I can't be that upset about it, since I guided my buddy to buy an American Professional Jazzmaster recently, and that's 9.5" and has whatever marketing nonsense Fender calls the frets on there- "medium jumbo tall vintage informed" or whatever.
The only thing I give a shit about on a Jazzmaster is that the tremolo unit be in the right spot and there not by any fucking Gibson parts on there. Everything else is just personal preference, and while I consider the vintage Fender specs to be as good as anything else ever made, even I don't think that it's what everyone should play or what every Jazzmaster should be.
I guess I can't be that upset about it, since I guided my buddy to buy an American Professional Jazzmaster recently, and that's 9.5" and has whatever marketing nonsense Fender calls the frets on there- "medium jumbo tall vintage informed" or whatever.
The only thing I give a shit about on a Jazzmaster is that the tremolo unit be in the right spot and there not by any fucking Gibson parts on there. Everything else is just personal preference, and while I consider the vintage Fender specs to be as good as anything else ever made, even I don't think that it's what everyone should play or what every Jazzmaster should be.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.
- mekhem
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Re: In defence of the American Original
vistavision wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:00 pm
Oh, that reminds me, Fender prices go up the first week of August.
Again? They went up around March didn't they?