Is the unplugged tone important to you?
- Embenny
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
Well, that assumption about not "wanting" a guitar's body to be vibrating has nothing to do with tone, and rather only has to do with absolute amplitude.
Tone is just a less-fancy synonym for timbre, which is the gestalt of characteristics that make a sound unique and recognizable. It includes the ADSR envelope (attack, decay, sustain, release) as well as things like harmonic content, waveform shape, etc.
While peak efficiency of an electric guitar might occur when no vibrational energy is lost to the body and neck, all that would do is yield a slightly higher pickup output.
All that would do is slightly improve signal to noise ratio. Now, if you have a competently designed pickup and shielded guitar, noise should be minimal to begin with, so getting 1-2 dB higher SNR (or whatever an electric guitar at peak efficiency would achieve) shouldn't actually have a musically-meaningful impact.
But the ability of the guitar to modulate timbre through lossy vibrations absolutely doeshave a musically-meaningful impact - like through the resonance of a strat's vibrato springs or the string length behind the bridge on a Jazzmaster, both of which affect timbre, both acoustically and plugged in.
So, what might be mechanically non-ideal might be musically ideal, and vice versa. Guitars are not turbines. Efficiency of energy transfer might not be the actual goal.
Anyone who has used a passive EQ can tell you that you can get a whole lot of euphonic results from a system that does nothing but rob energy from a musical signal.
Tone is just a less-fancy synonym for timbre, which is the gestalt of characteristics that make a sound unique and recognizable. It includes the ADSR envelope (attack, decay, sustain, release) as well as things like harmonic content, waveform shape, etc.
While peak efficiency of an electric guitar might occur when no vibrational energy is lost to the body and neck, all that would do is yield a slightly higher pickup output.
All that would do is slightly improve signal to noise ratio. Now, if you have a competently designed pickup and shielded guitar, noise should be minimal to begin with, so getting 1-2 dB higher SNR (or whatever an electric guitar at peak efficiency would achieve) shouldn't actually have a musically-meaningful impact.
But the ability of the guitar to modulate timbre through lossy vibrations absolutely doeshave a musically-meaningful impact - like through the resonance of a strat's vibrato springs or the string length behind the bridge on a Jazzmaster, both of which affect timbre, both acoustically and plugged in.
So, what might be mechanically non-ideal might be musically ideal, and vice versa. Guitars are not turbines. Efficiency of energy transfer might not be the actual goal.
Anyone who has used a passive EQ can tell you that you can get a whole lot of euphonic results from a system that does nothing but rob energy from a musical signal.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- DeathJag
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
I like to be able to practice unplugged so I enjoy more if a guitar is more resonant. But I’ve never chosen one over the other to practice on, that is actually determined by the comfy factor! So I guess I don’t care that much.
And holy cow what an interesting thread this turned out to be! I admit I am a dummy, and both sides makes sense. If the string vibration is maximized, as in the design doesn’t allow the vibrations to pass beyond the string, I can see that being a louder signal and sustaining longer. I don’t know if that louder signal adds or subtracts freqs to its signal. It kind of seems like it could, since slamming strings sounds a lot different than lightly plucking. I’m kind of a noise floor guy where I can be, and I would always prefer the strings themselves be louder versus having to add even a little extra gain anywhere.
Dan
One of my favorite words! First time I’ve seen it used here. Nice work!
And holy cow what an interesting thread this turned out to be! I admit I am a dummy, and both sides makes sense. If the string vibration is maximized, as in the design doesn’t allow the vibrations to pass beyond the string, I can see that being a louder signal and sustaining longer. I don’t know if that louder signal adds or subtracts freqs to its signal. It kind of seems like it could, since slamming strings sounds a lot different than lightly plucking. I’m kind of a noise floor guy where I can be, and I would always prefer the strings themselves be louder versus having to add even a little extra gain anywhere.
Dan
- Mechanical Birds
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
I play unplugged a huge majority of the time but the only thing I notice is resonance and prefer a lot of it
- JVG
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- pad
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
same for me kinda. some sing and those who sing get more attentionMechanical Birds wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:30 pmI play unplugged a huge majority of the time but the only thing I notice is resonance and prefer a lot of it
- sal paradise
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
Clearly if the unplugged tone is important you’ve already bought an acoustasonic. Another plus is that it can also double up as your electric.
… which is what I imagine part of the mental gymnastics that happen if you drop £1k on one …
… which is what I imagine part of the mental gymnastics that happen if you drop £1k on one …
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?
- Powdered Toast Man
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
I had this discussion with my bassist the other day. He was upset because one of the strings on his bass was ringing (or buzzing) a little behind the nut. I was like, "Are you going to hear that when it's plugged in? Is that going to make it through to the pickups all the way down on the body?" He was kinda like, oh... yeah I guess.
- SignoftheDragon
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
I can tell you that I like the way a few of my guitars sound unplugged, but does that really translate into those few sounding better through the amp?
My experience is: not enough for anything but the most cursory mention.
I've owned 9 different Charvel Surfcaster 12s by now, and comparing them unplugged vs. plugged did yield some subtle differences. Now, some might call those subtle differences "where the magic happens" but I never found a variation that 10 seconds of EQ adjustment couldn't nudge in or out- if adjustments were even needed.
One Surf12 in particular did stand out as a little more aggressive & beefy tone-wise- it was the earliest serial/dated one, slightly heavier and with a more substantial neck than the others. Even unplugged it was a little bit louder than the others.
(I use this example because technically these guitars were all built with the same specs/dimensions/hardware/neck wood/fingerboard combination- variables being body wood {mahogany with maple cap vs. basswood} on some and date of manufacture- they technically should sound the same.)
So- yes, I could tell a difference. No, it wasn't very important to me.
My experience is: not enough for anything but the most cursory mention.
I've owned 9 different Charvel Surfcaster 12s by now, and comparing them unplugged vs. plugged did yield some subtle differences. Now, some might call those subtle differences "where the magic happens" but I never found a variation that 10 seconds of EQ adjustment couldn't nudge in or out- if adjustments were even needed.
One Surf12 in particular did stand out as a little more aggressive & beefy tone-wise- it was the earliest serial/dated one, slightly heavier and with a more substantial neck than the others. Even unplugged it was a little bit louder than the others.
(I use this example because technically these guitars were all built with the same specs/dimensions/hardware/neck wood/fingerboard combination- variables being body wood {mahogany with maple cap vs. basswood} on some and date of manufacture- they technically should sound the same.)
So- yes, I could tell a difference. No, it wasn't very important to me.
- Larsongs
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
I like my Guitars to sound good when I noodle unplugged & I like them to sound good when I plug them in… I don’t care about the Science… I care about the Sound….
- del
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
I played unplugged very often, so how a guitar sounds without the benefit of electricity matters and is important to me.
But that's a really personal feeling: my most-played guitar is old and wonky and frets out in a few places, but it's a delight to pick up! And I find it to be very musical and that translates to how it sounds for me when I plug it in to an amplifier.
I have a seriously-skilled pal with a beautiful Jazzmaster that is always out and is perfectly set up and I've seen/heard it make amazing music. When I fiddle around with it un-electrified it still "sounds good," but it's no fun for me at all and I set it right back down.
But that's a really personal feeling: my most-played guitar is old and wonky and frets out in a few places, but it's a delight to pick up! And I find it to be very musical and that translates to how it sounds for me when I plug it in to an amplifier.
I have a seriously-skilled pal with a beautiful Jazzmaster that is always out and is perfectly set up and I've seen/heard it make amazing music. When I fiddle around with it un-electrified it still "sounds good," but it's no fun for me at all and I set it right back down.
The Kinks - The Fall – The Bad Seeds - Spacemen 3 - The Gories - Royal Trux
"The idea is to put a pick in one hand and a guitar in the other and with a tiny movement rule the world." - David Fair
"The idea is to put a pick in one hand and a guitar in the other and with a tiny movement rule the world." - David Fair
- HarlowTheFish
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Re: Is the unplugged tone important to you?
Personally yes, but more as a feel thing than as a tone thing, objectively.
I think it was Mike earlier in the thread that mentioned how timbre can be very linked to the hardware and style of construction (which is why a JM without the JM trem and bridge can sound quite different from what one would expect, for example), and that's a pretty big thing -- my headlesses sound much more akin to each other than to anything else, despite very different electronics/pickups and one having a trem vs. the other's hardtail, but the way the strings interact with the nut/bridge and how the energy loss (because realistically it's the way energy is lost into the hardware/neck/body/player that changes the timbre) works in this kinda setup.
So having a few guitars that have a different unplugged tone (and therefore unplugged feel) changes the way I play because I'm getting different feedback from them as a player. It's not a matter of "the most resonant sounds better" or whatever else, but I don't tend to hang on to the ones that feel like stiff planks just as a matter of player preference/feel.
I think it was Mike earlier in the thread that mentioned how timbre can be very linked to the hardware and style of construction (which is why a JM without the JM trem and bridge can sound quite different from what one would expect, for example), and that's a pretty big thing -- my headlesses sound much more akin to each other than to anything else, despite very different electronics/pickups and one having a trem vs. the other's hardtail, but the way the strings interact with the nut/bridge and how the energy loss (because realistically it's the way energy is lost into the hardware/neck/body/player that changes the timbre) works in this kinda setup.
So having a few guitars that have a different unplugged tone (and therefore unplugged feel) changes the way I play because I'm getting different feedback from them as a player. It's not a matter of "the most resonant sounds better" or whatever else, but I don't tend to hang on to the ones that feel like stiff planks just as a matter of player preference/feel.