NGD - Fender Japan Traditional '60s Jazzmaster

[smora]

Surfysonic, I saw from an older thread that you used to have an AmPro II. I know you don't have it anymore to measure, but could you compare it from memory to other JM necks you have now, especially the AO 60? I'm looking at those two models and I have some idea of how the AO 60's neck might feel, but have no idea about the deep C on the AmPro II.

[Surfysonic]

Thanks for the measurements. I've kind of learned what my preferred comfort range is so measurements can tell me whether to bother checking out a certain model or not. I've never played a U-shaped neck though. How does it feel compared to a C shape? Would you say it has more shoulder?

A U shape is wider and with more shoulder than a C shape. I have big hands, so I don't notice the shoulder so much. YMMV depending on your hand size.

[Surfysonic]

Surfysonic, I saw from an older thread that you used to have an AmPro II. I know you don't have it anymore to measure, but could you compare it from memory to other JM necks you have now, especially the AO 60? I'm looking at those two models and I have some idea of how the AO 60's neck might feel, but have no idea about the deep C on the AmPro II.

The AmPro II has a "Deep C" shape with a smooth, rolled fingerboard. It was a slimmer neck than the AO 60. Hopefully, someone on here can give you exact caliper measurements, as I don't have the AmPro II any more. Not a bad guitar, but neck was a bit too slim for me and I didn't care for the tone control push/push that made the control sit too high off the pickguard. On the positive side, the new panorama tremolo was quite nice.

[smora]

Thanks for your descriptions. The "deep C" designation is what throws me off. What's deep about it if it's not as thick as the MId-60's C? Not asking you directly, but I don't get that name and then someone can call it slim, although I guess you do have big hands. The Japan Traditional 60's is interesting to me now though. Might have to check that one out.

[Surfysonic]

Happy to help!

FWIW, I asked Google, "Is the Fender Deep C neck shape the same as the C to D shape?" and this is what it came up with:

Most of the guitars in Fender's new series have the American Professional “Deep C” neck profile, with substantial shoulders measuring somewhere between a “Modern C” and a “U”-shaped profile. ... The back of this neck wears a satin finish for smooth fret-handling.

[mastermorya]

It's funny, I got one of these and was going to post a NGD but I'll hold of on it!

Really love this guitar. With vintage prices going absolutely bonkers, and even used prices fetching a lot more than they did two years ago, I found myself in a quandary. I wanted a Jazzmaster with vintage frets, not "vintage-tall". And matching headstock. Not a lot of options but I also got turned on to these when RIORIO put one up for sale and I almost snagged it, though Reverb didn't clear the funds from the guitar I sold to get this in time.
So I imported it from ishibashi, did ok on the transaction even with shipping and customs duties.

The pickups are supposed to V-Mod IIs. I dunno about that, they are pretty stratty. Like, good strat pickups with a little bit of jm flavor (not a lot). I'll probably replace with PV 65s because they are cheap. Put witch hats on it, the vibrato is ok, but the arm is bad, too short and too close to the body.

Incidentally, I contacted Mastery directly and they said the right bridge for this specific model is the M1-Kit. The Mastery tends to rattle in my experience so I'm not sure I'll even go that way, this one rattles a bit but only acoustically.

[Surfysonic]

It's funny, I got one of these and was going to post a NGD but I'll hold of on it!

Really love this guitar. With vintage prices going absolutely bonkers, and even used prices fetching a lot more than they did two years ago, I found myself in a quandary. I wanted a Jazzmaster with vintage frets, not "vintage-tall". And matching headstock. Not a lot of options but I also got turned on to these when RIORIO put one up for sale and I almost snagged it, though Reverb didn't clear the funds from the guitar I sold to get this in time.
So I imported it from ishibashi, did ok on the transaction even with shipping and customs duties.

The pickups are supposed to V-Mod IIs. I dunno about that, they are pretty stratty. Like, good strat pickups with a little bit of jm flavor (not a lot). I'll probably replace with PV 65s because they are cheap. Put witch hats on it, the vibrato is ok, but the arm is bad, too short and too close to the body.

Incidentally, I contacted Mastery directly and they said the right bridge for this specific model is the M1-Kit. The Mastery tends to rattle in my experience so I'm not sure I'll even go that way, this one rattles a bit but only acoustically.

Congrats! Yeah, I was a bit underwhelmed with the stock pickups, tbh. Not a fan of the vibrato arm either, heh. I hope to get my Mastery bridge & vibrato in a couple of weeks. I've been lucky with the few Mastery bridges I have.

Thanks for the head's up. I just emailed Mastery and explained what I've learned from you and to see if I can change the order to replace the M2 bridge for the M1-Kit with the thimbles.

[Surfysonic]

Amanda @ Mastery adjusted my Mastery order so that I'll get the OMV Kit (M1 bridge & OMV Vibrato) instead of the M2 Bridge and OMV Vibrato. Getting a partial ($10) refund as well.

I decided to move some bits and pieces around on the Trad '60s JM and my AO '60s JM. I took out the Hum-Cancelling Brandenwound Jazzmaster pickups from the AO '60s JM and swapped out the Spitfire tort pickguard with the Trad '60s JM mint (very light mint as compared to US mint pickguards). I re-installed the stock Pure Vintage '65 pickups into the AO '60s JM.

I put the Spitfire tort pickguard on the Trad '60s JM and I think it looks way more striking with the Lake Placid Blue body and black JB Two/Tone Jazzmaster pickup covers. I'll probably just save the Brandenwound pickups for a future build. I could put them in my Vintera '60s JM, but I'm fine with leaving the set of Pure Vintage '65 pickups in that one, too.

[Loobster]

Mike & Mike's Guitar Bar has sold a number of JMs from the MIJ Traditional line on Reverb and it seems the general neck measurements are as follows:

' ... .865" deep at the 1st fret and .920" at the 12th.'

I presume the roasted necks are about the same, give or take.

That's smart. Crying out for a gold anodized pickguard, though.

[Nayff]

Been looking at those recently… how do you feel about it now you’ve had it for a while?

[smora]

Hey Surfy, would you mind measuring the nut width? Another member said the nut width on theirs was 1.61", which to me feels significantly different than 1.650".

[mastermorya]

I said 1.61, and I'm seeing a few website that list it as: Bone, 1.615' (41.02 mm) which is probably right. I can say I've had a JM with an A neck (1.5") and I didn't like that and prefer 1.65. But the slightly more narrow nut doesn't bother me at all on this one.

[Surfysonic]

Been looking at those recently… how do you feel about it now you’ve had it for a while?

It's quickly becoming difficult to tell which I enjoy more, so I'll call it a draw at this point with the Trad '60s JM and my AO '60s JM. Compared to my JM's these are best quality, but I also enjoy my Vintera '60s JM, my Squier J Mascis JM, and my two (probably going to sell one soon) Squier Classic Vibe 60's JMs.

Hey Surfy, would you mind measuring the nut width? Another member said the nut width on theirs was 1.61", which to me feels significantly different than 1.650".

Trad '60s JM's nut width is 1.613 " (40.97 mm)

[smora]

Trad '60s JM's nut width is 1.613 " (40.97 mm)

Thanks! Wow, really have to consider this model now. Was dead set on going for an AO60, now I'm not so sure. I really like a smaller nut width, but with a thick-ish back profile and this seems to fit the bill.

I've never handled a USA-made offset, but always wanted to spring for one since they've really become my main guitars and want to own at least one. I've always wondered about the build quality difference between something like an MIJ or MIM Classic 60's vs. an AVRI or AV. Assuming hardware and electronics upgrades where necessary on the imports how different are they really? Where do you feel the quality difference for the extra coin on the MIA guitars? I'm assuming nicer woods, but does that mean they more resonant unplugged? Could you tell a difference in a a blind feel and sound test?

[Surfysonic]

Trad '60s JM's nut width is 1.613 " (40.97 mm)

Thanks! Wow, really have to consider this model now. Was dead set on going for an AO60, now I'm not so sure. I really like a smaller nut width, but with a thick-ish back profile and this seems to fit the bill.

I've never handled a USA-made offset, but always wanted to spring for one since they've really become my main guitars and want to own at least one. I've always wondered about the build quality difference between something like an MIJ or MIM Classic 60's vs. an AVRI or AV. Assuming hardware and electronics upgrades where necessary on the imports how different are they really? Where do you feel the quality difference for the extra coin on the MIA guitars? I'm assuming nicer woods, but does that mean they more resonant unplugged? Could you tell a difference in a a blind feel and sound test?

Here are my impressions thus far:

• Wood on US and Japan models are different, however, as I've been educated on here and have to come to determine myself, the Japanese Basswood (on the Trad '60s JM) is quite lovely. The guitar weight overall is quite a bit lighter than my AO '60s JM. Please don't ask me to weigh them as I couldn't do it accurately.

• The dark roasted neck on the Trad '60s JM is gorgeous and feels great in my hand. However, I also quite like the AO '60 JM's neck shape, and the dot & binding combination on its maple neck. Both have rosewood boards AFAIU. For some reason, I tend to prefer dot & binding over block and binding lately. Not to say that my Squier CV '70s Jag neck isn't great - it's also quite nice and seems of exceptional quality and I don't mind the Laurel board once I gave it the once-over with some boiled linseed oil.

• The Trad '60s JM's stock wiring and components (switches, jack, volume and tone controls) are quite nice and well made. The pickups are of better quality (to my ears) than the Squier CV '60s JM stock pickups), but I had some Joe Barden Two/Tone pickups with humbucker capability and it's own S-switch components to put in the Trad '60s JM.
  
  Since I removed the Barden components from one of my Squier Classic Vibe '60s Jazzmasters, I simply swapped out the wiring harness from the CV '60s JM with the Trad '60s JM. So now my CV '60s JM has the Trad '60s JM stock pickups and wiring harness with switches, vol & tone controls, and output jack. It's a nice little upgrade for that CV '60s JM, which I'm going to sell off soon. Unfortunately, the stock 3-way toggle switch from the CV '60s JM was intermittently causing me issues and it turned out a metal bit of it had broken off. I'm replacing it with a new Fender American Vintage Jazzmaster 3-way Toggle Switch from Darren Riley - it just arrived today, hooray!

The US Fender guitars typically have nicer woods, electrical components, and overall build quality but the Fender Japan models (to me), are a very close second and in some cases, equal if not better re: woods. I haven't owned a Fender Japan model in years and I was thoroughly impressed with the stock electrical components. For me, I can easily tell the difference between a US Fender and either a MIM Fender or MIC/MII Fender. Fender Japan's Trad '60s JM is very nice and I would think it would be more of a challenge to distinguish between the US and the Japan one except that the US Fender guitar's binding and stock pickups are dead giveaways because the pickups are still (to me) better quality.

I've always loved MIM Fender guitars because of their mojo, which I define as feel and tone, and my overall bonding with the instrument. Frankly, although of better build quality (woods, components), I tend to find some US Fender guitars fairly sterile to me. Happily, I don't get that sterile feel from my current US Fender guitars (AV '65 Strat, AO '60s JM, Johnny Marr Jag, Parallel Universe Vol II Tele Magico, and of course, my '63 Jag and '66 Mustang both which have mojo for eons).

While I love the MIM Fender guitars mojo, personally, I feel their prices have unjustifiably skyrocketed IMHO. I do like the Vintera models ('60s Jazzmaster, '50s Strat, and '50s Tele) but I ended up swapping out each of their stock pickup sets. I concede I have seen a bit of improvement in their fit & finish quality, but not to justify their leap in cost, IMHO.

From my experience, the China and Indonesian-made Squier models have made huge improvements in quality in a fairly short span of time in terms of years. I look to my Squier J Masic Signature Jazzmaster, my Squier Contemporary Jaguar HH (with roasted neck!) and the Classic Vibe line for Jazzmasters, Strats, Teles, and Jaguars as examples. Before you know it, they're going to surpass the MIM Fender guitars in quality if they haven't already done so. I now own more MIC or MII guitars than I do MIM guitars.

That said, production made guitars from any of those places will always have a clunker or two that will get past Quality Control. Maybe far less so with US and Japan production guitars.

I've always been impressed with Japan-made guitars. I have several Gretsch guitars that are quite superb in fit & finish. A lot of my fellow Gretsch afficionado friends readily acknowledge that Gretsch Japan guitars are consistently better made than the old US ones. Not that it doesn't deter the pricing on the vintage US ones out on Reverb, heh.

I told myself not to write a dissertation. Oops!