What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag & JM review

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.

Hey, you, sssshhhhh!

Kinman
13
57%
Brandonwound
1
4%
Lindy Fralin
3
13%
Other
6
26%
 
Total votes: 23

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JSett
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless?

Post by JSett » Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:33 am

Okay. Today a pair of the 'Surf' Jaguar ones arrived from that UK stockist. First thing to tackle was the logo (no choice not to have them). Mike, you'll be please to know it was laughably painless to remove them. Here's one with the offending (and it is pretty offensive) logo...

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I pulled the covers off and rested them face-down on a folded up tissue with a very small drizzle of acetone on it for approx 2 minutes. The entire logo just wiped off after that...

Image

Happy days. What's not happy days, as you can see, is the fact I had to buy ones with wildly different coloured covers. Now, I have a pretty good system for making plastics go the colour I want them so 4 mins in a cup of hot water with 4 Yorkshire Tea bags later I'd brought the white one up to basically the same shade as the other...

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Here they are installed. They look like old MIJ pickups. Meh, I'll live with it if they sound good...

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Right, onto the sound of the actual things. Firstly, damn these things are fucking quiet. I wouldn't say zero hum as there is still a tiny bit of noise from the world outside getting in, but near as dammit. You can barely tell the difference in noise floor stomping on a cranked Rat. As for tonality... They are very very similar to the AV65 pickups, similar brightness and balance. There is a certain extra 'spank' on the low strings when clean, and the bottom end is a teeny tiny bit less focused when overdriven but it's barely noticeable. Overall, they sound like Jaguar pickups, just humless (new word).
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless?

Post by GreenKnee » Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:08 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:33 am
Wow, that was quick! You did a great job on the covers, really impressed with the Yorkshire Tea job.

So, are they really as good as the comments in this thread suggest?
I'm tempted to try the Kinman but I'm leaning towards doing something whacky with my MIJ as I have the traditional sound covered.

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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by Embenny » Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:31 am

Oh that's excellent news regarding the logos! Also, you did a great job matching the two covers.

I'm glad you got your hands on a pair so quickly and for such a good price!

Glad you're liking them. Your impression of yours has been sounds like mine and Larry's - these sound like good single coils, and don't hum.

I should probably bite the bullet and order the Surf Jag for my '66.
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by JSett » Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:37 am

GreenKnee wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:08 am

Wow, that was quick! You did a great job on the covers, really impressed with the Yorkshire Tea job.

So, are they really as good as the comments in this thread suggest?
I'm tempted to try the Kinman but I'm leaning towards doing something whacky with my MIJ as I have the traditional sound covered.
Thanks! Indeed, Yorkshire Tea is the best at staining I've found (and the best for drinking - and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise, come at me bro!).

Are they as good as people say? Well, if the measuring stick is "sounds accurately like a Jaguar and rejects noise" then, well, yes I guess. I'm recording on Sunday at our aforementioned rehearsal space so we'll see how good it is there (that place is the worst)[
mbene085 wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:31 am
Oh that's excellent news regarding the logos! Also, you did a great job matching the two covers.

I'm glad you got your hands on a pair so quickly and for such a good price!

Glad you're liking them. Your impression of yours has been sounds like mine and Larry's - these sound like good single coils, and don't hum.

I should probably bite the bullet and order the Surf Jag for my '66.
Yeah, thanks for the recommendation. The logo removal was great and totally painless...so if you see a set come up used and they have the logo it need not be a sticking point now - most of us have some kind of small bottle of acetone (or can acquire some from a shop or wife/partner with painted nails) so it's easy peasy. I was pleased they didn't sound like 'meh' pickups, okay but underwhelming...they do sound like good ones.


Next up will be the Jazzmaster ones that are coming direct, but I have no idea how long they'll be.
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by GreenKnee » Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:07 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:37 am

Thanks! Indeed, Yorkshire Tea is the best at staining I've found (and the best for drinking - and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise, come at me bro!).
Oh yes, never a truer word spoken.

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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by Embenny » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:07 pm

johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:37 am
Yeah, thanks for the recommendation. The logo removal was great and totally painless...so if you see a set come up used and they have the logo it need not be a sticking point now - most of us have some kind of small bottle of acetone (or can acquire some from a shop or wife/partner with painted nails) so it's easy peasy. I was pleased they didn't sound like 'meh' pickups, okay but underwhelming...they do sound like good ones.

Next up will be the Jazzmaster ones that are coming direct, but I have no idea how long they'll be.
My pleasure. I'm kind of surprised the Jaguar pickups aren't more popular. With the JM ones, it's true that there are more established brands, cheaper options, etc. But for the Jag, there are literally no other options, unless you rout your Jag for the strat triangular baseplate and/or buy a new pickguard for claw-less strat pickups.

Maybe the Jaguar isn't as popular as I thought it was. Fender's not bothering to release an American model other than the Marr right now, and nobody seems to talk about noiseless pickups. Or maybe people who like shortscales and prefer noiseless pickups just buy Mustangs, since any of the million noiseless strat options just drop straight in. Speaking of which, if anyone is curious, I've talked to Kinman and they're willing to make literally any of their strat models in a flush-pole form factor to fit a traditional Mustang cover, so you're not limited to their three options listed in the Mustang section.

They were quite explicit in emphasizing how the flush poles affect the tone (less-ideal string balance, a bit less top end) compared to the regular strat models, on top of the scale length and position differences, so they don't want anyone being upset that their Mustang doesn't sound just like the strat demo their found, but I think it's super cool Offset fan service that they'll go that extra mile. I don't see anybody else in the noiseless world making that effort. It's more like "Mustang/Jag? Cool, just use a strat pickup, the routing/appearance doesn't matter." I even had a good chat with them about which strat model, when made with flush poles, would most closely resemble an actual vintage Mustang pickup. The conclusion was the Impersonator E69, the model in their "Blackmore" set. It's not one of the models you'll find on their Mustang page. Since I see myself buying some Surf Jag pickups as well, I didn't want to end up with Mustang pickups that sound the same, so it was cool to find out that I had more than the two options listed on their Mustang page.

I'll definitely grab some acetone and go ham on those Fatmaster pickups now. I had originally been planning to switch them to black covers anyway, but my wife convinced me that white is the way to go on my upcoming build. I disassembled the guitar they used to be in, so they're just sitting in a drawer. Getting that logo off will be the first order of business before assembly of their new home.

I think you'll be glad you ordered the Fatmasters instead of the Surfmasters, since you ended up with the low-output/vintage-sounding Jaguar option.
DeathJag wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:02 am
THANK YOU for this awesome post! I didn't USED TO have GAS for these...

So did the names change again? Are there still Fatmasters and Thickmasters?

Here's a question - do the Surfmasters resemble AV65 pickups? I find AV65 pickups to be way way too bright.
[/quote]

Sorry, I think I forgot to answer your question.

The names of the JM pickups don't appear to have changed...for now. With Kinman, things are always subject to change. He iterates a lot. Even the same/same name pickup will get updates every year or two, if and when he figures out some small new way to improve the design (which typically means that either it rejects hum better, maintains more accurate high end, or has a better dynamic response). But sometimes those changes must be big enough that he feels the need to change the name. That, or he finally realized that "blues" isn't an effective marketing term when dealing with Jaguar players. The pickups may be close to strat pickups, but the customers aren't close to strat customers!

Unfortunately, I don't have Surfmasters to compare, so maybe Larry can answer that question better than me, but what I will say is that if you find AV65 "way" too bright, the Fatmasters are definitely the brightest option you should consider. My thought process is that, if you like the thinner side of Fender single coils, you'll like the Surfmasters, if you like the thicker side of Fender single coils, you'll like the Fatmasters, and if you like the P90 side of the single coil world, you'll like the Thickmasters.

Same for the Jaguar's surf/mod/punk options.
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by JSett » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:39 pm

Well, I just got a FedEx notification that the JM ones have shipped which is muy rápido! I wonder if I'll get stung for import taxes from the Philippines - I'm due some good luck after being stung on almost everything for the last year.

I'm not used to pickups being this quick... The usual 2-3 month wait on Creamery has lowered my expectations :D
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless?

Post by Veitchy » Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:39 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:33 am
happy days, as you can see, is the fact I had to buy ones with wildly different coloured covers. Now, I have a pretty good system for making plastics go the colour I want them so 4 mins in a cup of hot water with 4 Yorkshire Tea bags later I'd brought the white one up to basically the same shade as the other...
Fucking how good is Yorkshire Tea.
mbene085 wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:07 pm
That's interesting that they've given thought not only to the height of the pole pieces, but the short scale as well. Considering they say flat-out that the Jazzmaster has the best fender single coils (or it could do) I wonder if there aren't some real offset fans at Kinman.

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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by garyptaszek » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:16 am

where's the tailback sticker gone tho? :(

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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by JSett » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:20 am

garyptaszek wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:16 am
where's the tailback sticker gone tho? :(
The Descendants one went all gooey with sweat so had to remove it...unfortunately the TB one was half on it and had to come off too. Save me another and it'll get it back in place :-*
Last edited by JSett on Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by garyptaszek » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:21 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:20 am
garyptaszek wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:16 am
where's the tailback sticker gone tho? :(
The Descendants one went all gooey with sweat so had to remove it...unfortunately the TB one was half on it and had to come off too. Save me another and it'll get out back in place :-*
I've got your back

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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag review

Post by JSett » Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:11 pm

Jazzmaster pickups arrived today. Made it through customs without getting noticed which is a bonus!

Firstly, the covers are not interchangeable on the neck pickups - the polepieces are narrower together (which makes sense) - so I had to go with the ones he sent with them. They didn't take to the Yorkshire tea dip as well as the Jaguar ones so I'll have to live with them being a little whiter than I'd prefer. Installation was no real drama apart from the little rubber mounts being a bit fiddly (read: infuriating).

The sound is the important thing. Again, these are quiet as a mouse when you're not playing which is the point. Sonically, they're definitely not as bright as the Creamery '58's I had in there before, not quite as much jangle. Very well balanced though. Notably warmer, noticeably hotter in output but that was fixed by cranking them down a little.

I have a feeling these will sound good through my Bassman.
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag & JM review

Post by JSett » Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:52 pm

I had the opportunity to use these in anger at band rehearsal tonight with the Bassman. Definitely hotter and drove the amp harder. I normally run at 7 on the volume dial and i had to back it off to about 5.5-6 for the regular amount of crunch I like. Seriously cut down on the noise in the room though as hoped/expected.

Very impressed. Would recommend.
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag & JM review

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:00 pm

Glad you like them, I'd really hate to recommend someone spend that kind of money and not like them. But I do feel very strongly about the Kinman stuff.
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Re: What's the current noise regards noiseless? Pg5 Jag & JM review

Post by Embenny » Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:21 pm

Really glad they worked out for you. For better and for worse, Kinmans are one of those "you get what you pay for" type deals. Good sounding/noiseless/cheap - pick whichever two mean the most to you.
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