I think I've had it...

[RavenCrest]

Because I'm a bit OCD (ok maybe more than a bit) My Classic Player JM is bothering me.
It has all the cool stuff, 3t sunburst, the rosewood fingerboard, the SD Antiquity 1's I think the reason I just don't play it very often is because I'm NOT happy with that meh bridge and the spacing of the vibrato closer to the bridge and the little tweaks I didn't even know about when I bought this guitar 2 years ago.

SO I think I have a somewhat affordable solution.

I'm going to find a new body, and swap out the hardware, neck, guard, electronics etc to the "new" body with the appropriate bridge (or an upgrade)

Question now becomes where do I get one and do I go relic or NOS look, custom color etc?

I wouldn't mind finding a LPB body but I'd offset (lol pun) the cost of the new body by selling off the old one which is probably 9.6 out of 10 condition and alder.

If I find a Fender OE body, does that technically make it a partsmaster? Am I just overthinking it and should I get some sleep?

[alexpigment]

The bridge is easy to deal with with some M8 grub screws and some springs. You basically can just drop in an American Pro bridge into the AOM posts after that (or perhaps a vintage bridge if you prefer), and call it a day. Since you're getting a new bridge anyway, the grub screws and springs are a very small cost on top of that. What do you find problematic about the position of the tremolo? I know that it's not "classic", but honestly I think it has its benefits.

If you do want to find a new body, I suggest adding a saved eBay search for MJT JTM, which is the MJT model for their Jazzmaster bodies. A lot of them come relic'd already, but there are some "closet classics" that come up too (albeit never a purely perfect finish). Most of them go for around $300 or less. On the other hand, you can spend quite a bit more money with Warmoth or similar and get exactly what you want.

[sugarandopium]

You don’t even need the springs, just m8 that are long enough will get you there.

You can also get a halon bridge, they have a model that fits on the stock posts.

The rosewood CP necks are really great pieces, so your idea of getting a different body is not a bad idea either.

You have options.
And yes, even with a fender OE body it will still be considered a partsmaster technically.

[RavenCrest]

The bridge is easy to deal with with some M8 grub screws and some springs. You basically can just drop in an American Pro bridge into the AOM posts after that (or perhaps a vintage bridge if you prefer), and call it a day. Since you're getting a new bridge anyway, the grub screws and springs are a very small cost on top of that. What do you find problematic about the position of the tremolo? I know that it's not "classic", but honestly I think it has its benefits.

If you do want to find a new body, I suggest adding a saved eBay search for MJT JTM, which is the MJT model for their Jazzmaster bodies. A lot of them come relic'd already, but there are some "closet classics" that come up too (albeit never a purely perfect finish). Most of them go for around $300 or less. On the other hand, you can spend quite a bit more money with Warmoth or similar and get exactly what you want.

Yea I saw some options on eBay for MJT, nothing really caught my eye just yet. Warmoth unfinished bodies are not terribly expensive, but more than double if you want some sort of finish. So that may be out on Warmoth.

What do you find problematic about the position of the tremolo?

It's purely cosmetic (aka irrational) It just bothers me for some reason. I think there's a 50/50 chance if I go ahead and get a "new" body that I may want to put it back because I'm an idiot like that sometimes.

[Larry Mal]

It's purely cosmetic (aka irrational) It just bothers me for some reason. I think there's a 50/50 chance if I go ahead and get a "new" body that I may want to put it back because I'm an idiot like that sometimes.

I'd say it's more than just cosmetic. I'd never want a Jaguar or Jazzmaster with the tremolo unit shifted forward.

That length of string back there adds harmonics to the sound of the guitar. That's the magic of those guitars. Moving the tremolo unit forward in order to prevent the resonance makes it just another guitar. The dumbest thing Fender has ever done. What a stupid idea. It showed me that they didn't even know what makes their own guitars good.

[Surfysonic]

I've also got a BloomDoom body that I love. Highly recommend BloomDoom - https://bloomdoomguitar.com/

If BloomDoom doesn't have what you're looking for in the Ready to Go section (under Shop), check out the Coming Soon section as well as Custom Order (also under Shop. Reasonably priced, similar to MJT. I also have a terrific MJT body.

Both MJT and BloomDoom are solid options based on my experience.

[ainm]

I hated my Vintera Modified Jag’s tremolo position. I don’t use the trem, but like Larry said, that course of strings is super important to a JM and Jag’s character. Hated the AOM bridge too. The 12” radius, while technically only slightly different in profile to a 9.5”, was adding extra woe on top of issues I’ve had with the neck on that guitar.

Probably not quite what you’re looking for as it seems the trem is important to you, but I’ll describe what I did anyway in case it gives you angles to explore.

I swapped out the AOM for a Gotoh 510bn TOM. It has height adjustable saddles, which is not something you easily find on AOM/TOM bridges. I needed to buy some new adapter studs to fit the thinner posts the bridge takes, but they screw into what was already there without any mods. We’re talking margins, but the result was more control over the setup of the guitar. I opted for pretty heavy strings and went for the bridge all the way down. I was surprised at this, but that Jag is easily my most resonant now. It’s not that gentle sympathetic background harmonic you get with a typical Jag, but a very aggressive, in your face and growly shimmer. Although you can still get an harmonic-esque shimmer if you’re incredibly gentle with it. And it’s loud - the guitar sounds almost acoustic. The downside is it’s difficult to play with such heavy strings, but amplified it’s stellar. I think the guitar, despite the shit neck, now holds its own in the sound department against any other guitar I own, and it’s all stock apart from the bridge. It’s different to anything I have and, it gets a lot of play time when my fretting hand is feeling strong.

Maybe I lucked out with the perfect combination of parts to uncover something I never knew I was looking for, but don’t discount playing around with strings and setups. Who knows, you may even find - as I did - that the trem placement gives you something different that you actually love. You can get some interesting responses from all sorts of lengths of strings behind the bridge. One of my favourites is the Venus shimmer, and that length is pretty short and with a thru-body break angle. Also an AOM bridge, interestingly. I think sometimes the those knife saddles can accentuate the behind the bridge stuff if enough of the vibration can travel across it (with a lower setup).

[alexpigment]

I'd say it's more than just cosmetic. I'd never want a Jaguar or Jazzmaster with the tremolo unit shifted forward.

That length of string back there adds harmonics to the sound of the guitar. That's the magic of those guitars. Moving the tremolo unit forward in order to prevent the resonance makes it just another guitar. The dumbest thing Fender has ever done. What a stupid idea. It showed me that they didn't even know what makes their own guitars good.

Based on my own experience, I find it odd that you hear so much of a difference between the two trem placements. Does your offset with the 'modern' trem spacing also have an AOM bridge on it? Admittedly, I think Fender first started doing this as a "throw everything at the wall" solution, where they 1) angled the neck pocket, 2) added the AOM, and 3) moved the trem closer to the bridge. All of these were done - in my estimation - just to prevent the strings from buzzing on the saddles or jumping off them during play. I agree it's a bit odd that Fender didn't realize all 3 changes were not necessary, and at this point they've decided to just to with option 1 on their 'reissue' offsets (though I will argue that they go way over what's necessary on their neck angles).

Having owned about 4 or 5 guitars like this, on each one I've reverse shimmed to tame the heavy-handed neck angle, then put on a more traditional style bridge (mustange style or threaded). The trem spacing, in my experience, actually makes it possible to have a comfortably low bridge height without any downsides. This was a core the goal of the Buzz Stop, although I've personally never used one of those and can't speak to whether it lives up to the hate that it gets here.

In other words, a neck shim and a tremolo closer to the bridge achieve the same thing, and I prefer the latter based on comfort. I don't notice any significant change in harmonics behind the bridge, but that's just my two cents.

[alexpigment]

The 12” radius, while technically only slightly different in profile to a 9.5”, was adding extra woe on top of issues I’ve had with the neck on that guitar.

Ultimately the feel matters more than any technical spec, but it's worth pointing out that the Vintera Modified has a 9.5" radius, so I think the difference in feel is likely coming from some other aspect of the neck (e.g. narrower nut width, edge angle, shape, etc).

[alexpigment]

Yea I saw some options on eBay for MJT, nothing really caught my eye just yet. Warmoth unfinished bodies are not terribly expensive, but more than double if you want some sort of finish. So that may be out on Warmoth.

What do you find problematic about the position of the tremolo?

It's purely cosmetic (aka irrational) It just bothers me for some reason. I think there's a 50/50 chance if I go ahead and get a "new" body that I may want to put it back because I'm an idiot like that sometimes.

That's fair. They come up several times per week (I get an eBay email about a new listing most mornings), but only one out of every 20 or so actually catches my eye. I only mentioned that because it's usually the cheapest option for a finished offset body that I'm aware of, especially if you're possibly wanting some relicing done as you alluded to. Like you said, Warmoth gets pricey for a finished guitar, which is why I've yet to go down that route. It's certainly worth checking out some of the other suggested brands mentioned in the thread.

Also, no worries about a cosmetic (and possibly irrational) reasoning for something. I won't buy a guitar if I feel the decal on the headstock is not in the 'ideal' place. Certainly not rational, but somehow the decal placement is such a make-or-break thing for me. Plastic color mismatches bother me too. I think everyone here can relate to cosmetic pettiness to some degree. If you do go with a non-Fender body, the neck pocket will likely be flat, so with the standard trem spacing you'll need to shim until you get the correct action and break angle over the bridge. This seems like a trivial task on paper, but there are some nuances to it, so I'd recommend paying the extra money to get one of those Stewmac 3-size pack of shims (along with their insane shipping fee).

[andy_tchp]

Plenty of Fender bodies being sold by Stratosphere on eBay if you decide to go that route.

[ainm]

The 12” radius, while technically only slightly different in profile to a 9.5”, was adding extra woe on top of issues I’ve had with the neck on that guitar.

Ultimately the feel matters more than any technical spec, but it's worth pointing out that the Vintera Modified has a 9.5" radius, so I think the difference in feel is likely coming from some other aspect of the neck (e.g. narrower nut width, edge angle, shape, etc).

Apologies, I was talking about the stock bridge here, which is a 12” radius. I felt the neck/bridge radius mismatch, while technically minuscule, was adding to the other niggles I have with the neck. When I adjusted the Gotoh 510bn to a 9.5” radius and first dropped it in, it felt more playable to me on the lower strings. And it let me go for heavier strings with a little attention to the nut.

[Larry Mal]

Based on my own experience, I find it odd that you hear so much of a difference between the two trem placements. Does your offset with the 'modern' trem spacing also have an AOM bridge on it? Admittedly, I think Fender first started doing this as a "throw everything at the wall" solution, where they 1) angled the neck pocket, 2) added the AOM, and 3) moved the trem closer to the bridge. All of these were done - in my estimation - just to prevent the strings from buzzing on the saddles or jumping off them during play. I agree it's a bit odd that Fender didn't realize all 3 changes were not necessary, and at this point they've decided to just to with option 1 on their 'reissue' offsets (though I will argue that they go way over what's necessary on their neck angles).

Oh, I've never owned a guitar with the modified tremolo placement, I've played a couple in the store, the whole concept offends me. So you can write me off as a purist or something. Asshole, maybe.

But I agree with you, it seems like Fender had some list of "problems" with the Jazzmaster and decided to "fix" it, but really just using quality Mustang bridges and putting in half degree shims would have taken care of every complaint, at least I think so. I can't see how half degree shims would cost more than routing out the neck pocket, but what do I know.

[alexpigment]

Apologies, I was talking about the stock bridge here, which is a 12” radius. I felt the neck/bridge radius mismatch, while technically minuscule, was adding to the other niggles I have with the neck. When I adjusted the Gotoh 510bn to a 9.5” radius and first dropped it in, it felt more playable to me on the lower strings. And it let me go for heavier strings with a little attention to the nut.

Ahh, gotcha - your previous post makes perfect sense to me now. Yes, I felt that mismatch too. It seemed like a delicate balancing act of getting low action on the outer strings and avoiding buzz on the middle ones. Certainly not unplayable, but definitely a compromise.

[alexpigment]

But I agree with you, it seems like Fender had some list of "problems" with the Jazzmaster and decided to "fix" it, but really just using quality Mustang bridges and putting in half degree shims would have taken care of every complaint, at least I think so. I can't see how half degree shims would cost more than routing out the neck pocket, but what do I know.

Yes, that would be the least invasive way to handle it while still appearing "correct" to the purist camp. Half a degree is about right, and a removable shim gives you flexibility that you don't get with the angled neck pocket. Still, it would be nice (for me) if there were an option to get the closer tremolo spacing on a body *without* the angled neck pocket. When set up right with minimal neck angle, my bridge is like two millimeters above the pickguard, and it doesn't cramp my style/hand when muting or resting my hand on the bridge. Much closer to a Tele/Strat feel. For a person who regularly plays Gibsons like yourself, I suspect bridge height is a complete non-issue for you though.