Why so little love for non-Fender offsets here?

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

Headstocks

It's also headstocks for me on a lot of otherwise great looking guitars.

Many of the boutique and lower end builders seem to base their guitars on Jags and JMs.
And while some look stunning I also find something that I don't really like on most of them (headstocks, pickguard placement, bridge alignment (angled tune-o-matics that wouldn't allow me to put a Staytrem/Mustang type bridge in there), scale lenght or price point (to name a few).
I already have enough B&B headstocks with more or less correct blocks... and really don't like the "Gibston style" blocks on e.g. the Revelation/Vintage Revo/Entwhistle guitars... also they aren't easily available in mainland Europe).

I even dared to order one of those Aliexpress (well mine was from eBay) Thinline Jag/Jazz hybrids (which had the angled bridge, an overhang fret on an otherwise 25,5" scale - had weird mirror plates instead of chrome, a weird, cheap looking pickguard placement and size (couldn't be exchanged for a standard JM guard sadly), cheap pickups and electronics, a fake Fender Jazzmaster decal (that I didn't see in the pics and didn't ask for) - first they offered to help me out and build me a body like the one they used (it was pretty close to my MIJ Thinline in shape and overall appearance) - but they suddenly couldn't do all that anymore when I asked again/gave them details.

Can't/won't spend 3k+ on a guitar. Especially not on one that I coulnd't try before in person. So that's it for any American boutique builder (for me) - Bilt's Starcaster headstock works - but I still prefer the Jag/JM/70s Strat/Coronado type.
For the European ones: Vuorensaku has a very weird headstock - The Deimel Firestar is very cool and almost got me convinced... but again 3k is a lot of money and I really like to assemble Jaguars on my own.

For real Fenders I somehow seem to apply the old (sith) rule of two. Sold one to buy another. The others are parts-guitars using custom built bodies and Squier/Allparts/aftermarket necks and various Fender and non Fender parts. Also have and had some Squiers - which are great guitars if you give them a little love and/or extra parts.

My first "offset" was a Danelectro Dead on 67 Baritone - which I stupidly sold and recently (two years ago) replaced with a regular scale length version of the same model. But they are rare as hen's teeth these days (and only very slightly offset if at all). Also have something that could be considered as a reverse offset (Mosrite type).

I personally think parts builds dominate the overall new guitar days - as most of us are tinkerers. Followed by Fenders and Squiers for the main reason of them being widely available while also solid and more or less reasonably priced (at least there is an offset in every price segment from 200-3000 bucks from Squier/Fender +more on vintage pieces.

[bodhi]

I rarely venture outside of the Mods & Projects part of the forum, so don't have that much of an overview of what's being discussed, but I'd agree that it's probably significantly influenced by market share and the cost of buying specific models. Meaning that Fender/Squier, having classic models with offset bodies have some kind of legacy to lean into rather than needing to market new brands, which makes it relatively easy for them to maintain a large mind share. At the same time, since the Fender-style instruments have an established visual identity but still offers a lot of customization with swapping parts around and trying different colors, you usually maintain some kind of coherent look.

Some other trends that should probably be recognized is that the guitar is in no way as prominent in popular music as (I believe) it was through the 70's and 80's, where you would see all sorts of fresh designs for the guitar heroes of the day. Guitar players are largely not that in to completely new designs that disregards the 50's-60's roots of the Fender/Gibson-style mainstream. Some of course are, such as Tosin Abasi's signature models, but those get associated with specific genres (you wouldn't have a "blues lawyer" play Sweet Home Alabama on one of those ), whereas more classic models don't have (as) strong associations to genres/bands. With the coming of CNC machines and many established guitar factories in Asia, starting a guitar brand isn't as complex as it probably was 40-50 years ago, meaning you can get something off the ground with less marketing

So, probably mindshare, economics of scale and cheaper entry a lot of the time. In the Mods & Projects section there's a reasonable amount of variation with distinct builds and bespoke designs, even if a lot of the builds still lean heavily into Fender-style solutions.

One company that I thought might hit a bit is Balaguer, since they seem to offer a slightly modernized look and have customization options in what is also probably a reasonable price class, but I can't really easily tell from over here in Europe. I've certainly never seen one live, and also don't really know what then the artist/genre associations become with that brand...

[distressed]

Also, the vast majority of them tend to be offset only by body design, without other construction or sonic characteristics.

[CivoLee]

Also, the vast majority of them tend to be offset only by body design, without other construction or sonic characteristics.

I get that when one thinks "offset" they think of a particular visual/sonic aesthetic - that of 80s/90s/2000s indie/alternative - but there's no reason to consider only 25.5 inch bolt on necked guitars with esoteric (that is, nothing that is commonly found on most other mainstream guitars) pickups and floating tailpieces to be "real" offsets and anything else to be just a guitar with a slanted body.

But I suppose the "market" has spoken at this point and "offset" means "Jazzmaster-influenced" and anything original that fits that description is too "boutique" (read: expensive) for the demographic of this forum...

[crazyzeke]

I showed up with a pointy headstock offset, a black Fernandes. I remember the look on that guy’s face when I pulled it out of the case. Not a great reaction. But I thought my audition was a slam dunk. Yet I didn’t get the gig…

I’m convinced it was my guitar. Oh well, the pandemic happened and that band disbanded, life goes on.

Hahaha that's a great anecdote.

I personally have a "no pointy Superstrat style guitars" policy but that's for me - I literally can and have played in bands where the other guitarist uses something like that with a Rose vibrato. Weirdly maybe it's a setup thing but a lot of them literally could not keep theirs in tune, something that as a longtime Jag player always made me chuckle, that a floating non-locking system could beat a locking one.

Yes, I've noticed that this is one of the slowest message boards I (kind of) frequent...

Quality over quantity, my friend. That's how I look at it. The post count overall might be low, but I value the opinions of people here over TGP or anywhere like that because they almost always have something to say, and I've only been back a few months yet I've already learnt a load of little things from the members here.


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There are some nice offset non-Fenders out there as has been said (BILT is a particular highlight) but it seems to be a combination of rarity and/or price that makes them less visible. I think Leo really got the offset shape right with the Jazzmaster and subtly varied it for the Jaguar, they're affordable and numerous whether you pick a Fender or a Squier (both can offer excellent value), there's a lot of variations to satisfy player tastes in terms of neck width/radius, pickup config, wiring... they have it sewn up in terms of not just market share but choice as well, so for many players there's little need to look elsewhere, which to me says they're doing a lot of things right.

Usually it's easier to pick up a good Fender/Squier offset that's closest to what you like and either use it stock or modify it to fit your tastes more, and it not be inordinately expensive to do so. In my experience there are very few shockingly poor quality guitars from either marque that I've ever come across - the minimum level of build quality always seems good (or good with a setup/fret crown after purchase but that can be said to be true for many guitars), whereas I've played some absolute howlers of Gibsons that for all the fixed bridge stability just wouldn't stay in tune or sound good, and I don't just mean the Norlin era stuff because I had a '77 LP Standard and that was great, literally one of the best LPs I've ever played, but all my Gibsons slowly disappeared when I discovered Fender offsets. It's the 24" scale 7.25" skinny necks, I think - I can do 5-fret stretch add9 chords anywhere on the neck, not easy for me on other instruments.

[CivoLee]

I auditioned for a local band where the band leader had a stock Fender Jazzmaster. I learned all their original songs front to back. I’ve never had someone audition for one of my projects show up knowing any of them LOL.

I showed up with a pointy headstock offset, a black Fernandes. I remember the look on that guy’s face when I pulled it out of the case. Not a great reaction. But I thought my audition was a slam dunk. Yet I didn’t get the gig…

I’m convinced it was my guitar. Oh well, the pandemic happened and that band disbanded, life goes on.

Everyone likes to pretend it's the 80s, when indie rock was defined by groups like the Smiths and Sonic Youth instead of today, where Phoebe Bridgers brings a BC Rich to Coachella

[Larsongs]

Coachella is going on this weekend.. About a mile from my House..

[F15hface]

All the non-fender offsets I like are at least two grand. Most non-fender offsets either have horrible headstocks, are designed for metal, or look like someone spent five minutes jamming a strat into a jazzmaster.

There has been a lot of love on here for things like the Charvel Surfcaster, but that's been out of production for 19 years so there isn't really much momentum behind them.

[Larsongs]

All the non-fender offsets I like are at least two grand. Most non-fender offsets either have horrible headstocks, are designed for metal, or look like someone spent five minutes jamming a strat into a jazzmaster.

There has been a lot of love on here for things like the Charvel Surfcaster, but that's been out of production for 19 years so there isn't really much momentum behind them.

I’ve watched for a Charvel Surfcaster for a few years now.. Scarce & pricey when they do pop up..

I’d like to play one the Eastwood Surfcaster.. But, they’re pricey too..

https://eastwoodguitars.com/products/su ... 4599879428

[F15hface]

All the non-fender offsets I like are at least two grand. Most non-fender offsets either have horrible headstocks, are designed for metal, or look like someone spent five minutes jamming a strat into a jazzmaster.

There has been a lot of love on here for things like the Charvel Surfcaster, but that's been out of production for 19 years so there isn't really much momentum behind them.

I’ve watched for a Charvel Surfcaster for a few years now.. Scarce & pricey when they do pop up..

I’d like to play one the Eastwood Surfcaster.. But, they’re pricey too..

https://eastwoodguitars.com/products/su ... 4599879428

Just had a quick Google and Jesus Christ, haven’t they just! Idk if the asking prices I’m seeing are being achieved, but over 2k seems like madness. Eastwood’s not cheap but at least not completely unreasonable.

[GilmourD]

Nearly every manufacturer/builder offers some kind of offset in their lineup these days, and this section of the forum is dedicated to new/newer models. So why does it seem like most of the guitars in this section are Fenders or Squiers? Even the Offset Porn Feed is 95% Jazzmasters, Jaguars and "student models" (Mustangs, Duo-Sonics and Musicmasters).

Is it because they were the original offsets and therefore anything that came after is a mere pretender to the throne? Or does the higher cost of some modern offsets (like Bilt) make them cost-prohibitive to own for most members and the "wannabe specs" (P90s, tun-o-matic bridge, Strat-style trems) of some of the lower end offsets make them off-putting (sorry)?

Maybe OSG should rebrand itself as Jags'n'Jazzys.com...

I think it's because the original designs were organic and a lot of non-Fenders have to change something and that often feels off to me. That's not all inclusive, but seems to be the case most of the time.

[TagoMago]

I don’t know, I mean the classic Fender offsets are classic for a reason - they’re fantastic designs and there’s a version of every one of them to suit almost every player and Squier have done the cool Jarman offsets and made cheap Starcasters available for all. Everyone’s familiar with them and Fender have been in the offset game for so long (and so prominently) that I bet a lot of players only think of buying theirs. Or at least a boutique ‘Fender-esque’ JM or Jag type.

But I’d still love a G&L Doheny. And I have a very soft spot for all the vintage non-Fender offsets like the wonky Framus ones, or Teiscos and Guyatones, Harmonys and Silvertones, etc, but I do have cheap taste in instruments these days and the chances of me owning vintage Jaguars or Mustangs or XII’s again are nil.

Like, I have one of the reissued Silvertone 1478’s and obviously they’re not period correct and they look like a meth head has seen a grainy photo of a Jazzmaster and then tried to build their own version of one, but it’s still a brilliant guitar for me.

And then there’s Mosrites. Mosrites!!! If I could afford a Johnny Ramone signature model I’d be on it like gorilla hair superglued to a breakfast TV presenter’s face. Or something. (Insert drool emoji here) Loads of love for the non-Fender offsets from me.