Re: AVRI comparison with Vintage?

Post by **sookwinder** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:51 pm

I've posteed already on this topic, but if i had to distill down to a single thought why one would chose an AV jag (which are exceptional guitars) or a vintage gtr. it is what guitar do you go and pick up when you want to relax with it on the couch - not even considering price, looks or what ever ... I always grab one of my 66 jags rather than the AV ... for me it just feels more comfortable ...

this maywell be different for other players

Post by **mezcalhead** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:34 am

RumorsOFsurF wrote: Aside from this place, I haven't seen too many players with AVRI's that weren't at least semi-serious. 1400 bucks is a lot to lay down on a new guitar for an occasional hobbyist.

Oh, we're cheapskates compared to some .. there are some forums where guys who are not professional musicians pay upwards of $5K for the privilege of waiting 2 years for a strat copy .. I'd be surprised if that demographic existed in the 60s.

RumorsOFsurF wrote:I'm just trying to make arguments for the other side. There's so much vintage fever around here, that many aren't really arguing, they are just saying "of course vintage is better."

Sure, sometimes a modern guitar is the right tool for the job. I had an audition the other day and took the above-mentioned strat .. it was in an area I didn't know well with a bunch of guys I'd never met and vintage just wasn't the way to go. I have gigged my old JMs but there's a time and place.

chrisjedijane · Post by **chrisjedijane** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:38 am

If I had a vintage JM and an AVRI in front of me and price wasn't an issue, I'd pick the one I liked better, whichever that might be. I'm rough as hell on my AVRI, and I'd hate to be doing that to a vintage instrument. I've only ever played one vintage jag, and one vintage jm, and they were both pretty nice.

There's a lot of talk about Brazilian Rosewood here - IMHO, I think it has a bit of an unjustified mystique (M@J@!) about it. I've always been a believer that such a small piece of wood on the neck can't have a massive effect on tone, and that people only go crazy about it because it's in short supply and expensive now. I'd like to see someone do some acoustic research on the resonant qualities of Brazilian vs. Indian rosewood or whatever they use today, instead of just hearing some guitar "guru" guy's 0.02 about it.

(edit - I said "personally" far too many times there...)

StevenO · Post by **StevenO** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:51 am

sookwinder wrote: I've posteed already on this topic, but if i had to distill down to a single thought why one would chose an AV jag (which are exceptional guitars) or a vintage gtr. it is what guitar do you go and pick up when you want to relax with it on the couch - not even considering price, looks or what ever ... I always grab one of my 66 jags rather than the AV ... for me it just feels more comfortable ...

this maywell be different for other players

I agree with that. I always pick the guitar that feels nicer to play. When you're playing unplugged, sound quality doesn't matter, just feel. I almost never play my AVRI Jazzmaster unplugged, mainly because I'm not a huge fan of new guitars and the way they feel. I usually take out my tele or my strat for those reasons alone.

jetset · Post by **jetset** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:51 am

I have owned about fifteen offsets over the years, over half of them were pre-cbs, the rest a mix uf MIJ, CIJ, AVRI, home-built and partsmasters. The bottom line is, every guitar is an individual instrument - some just feel right and some just feel off. But the percentages of great ones is much higher with vintage - I've only had one pre-CBS Fender that didn't feel great to play. I've only generally sold vintage offsets because they were too valuable/minty to play without worrying about losing value (which is a terrible way to approach a guitar, but it's a fact of life.) My keepers are a refin 66 JM, a pre-cbs/MIJ partsmaster, my home made USACG Jag and a '64 nicely worn JM. They are all slightly different and great instruments in their own individual ways.

The few AVRI's I've owned just didn't feel right to me. There's something about the finishes - they just feel a little thick and sticky, even after a decent micro sanding. Maybe they are somehow not cured right. And I do think there's something about the quality of wood available back then, or the effects of aging, but older wood just seem to be more musical to me. Every little thing counts too- the difference between an OK guitar and a great guitar could be as little as a badly seated or finished nut, a lousy pot, a dead piece of maple, pickup adjustment, or a not-quite right fret dressing. I've never had issues with fit and finish with ony of the 60's or Japanese made offsets I've owned (pots and pickups notwithstanding.)

The weird part of the current offset market is that I buy most guitars online - eBay or boards like this. So they can't be played before purchase. But you can easily re-sell if the guitar doesn't work for you, sometimes for a profit. So consider it a process - the guitar that looks like your dream guitar in the picture on G-Base may feel like a clunker in your hands. Sell it and try again.

sunburst80 · Post by **sunburst80** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:06 am

jetset wrote: The few AVRI's I've owned just didn't feel right to me. There's something about the finishes - they just feel a little thick and sticky, even after a decent micro sanding.

100% agree to this, the finish really feels strange and the neck doesnt seem to get better by just playing it. However it doesnt really bother me much. The thinskins are definately a step up in feel compared to the standard avri. The thin lacquer really helps. Playing the neck also changes the feel to the better after a few weeks. On the AVRI it basically always stays the same (without sanding).

RumorsOFsurF · Post by **RumorsOFsurF** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:04 am

sunburst80 wrote:
jetset wrote: The few AVRI's I've owned just didn't feel right to me. There's something about the finishes - they just feel a little thick and sticky, even after a decent micro sanding.
100% agree to this, the finish really feels strange and the neck doesnt seem to get better by just playing it. However it doesnt really bother me much. The thinskins are definately a step up in feel compared to the standard avri. The thin lacquer really helps. Playing the neck also changes the feel to the better after a few weeks. On the AVRI it basically always stays the same (without sanding).

After a few months of gigging, my AVRI feels great now. No more sticky icky, just smooth and lovely.

Post by **sookwinder** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:20 pm

My CS strat has this stickiness on the neck, just like my 2 AV offsets ... I thought it was part of the "being nitro paint" thing ... and admittedly after you've played the necks for 10 or 15 mintues and the nitro has warmed up, the stickiness seems to go away....

but i was talking to the peopple who did my latest mitro refins here in Aus, and trhey said that the nitro should not be sticky like that... it should be as hard as the body paint ... it's basically auto paint anyway and you wouldn't expect a car finish to be stcky !!!!

Fender just do something different with their nitro necks on the AV and CS models .... don't know what ... but it doesn't feel right as far as I am concerned

FireAarro · Post by **FireAarro** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:29 pm

My AVRI feels great to me, but it's second hand so possibly pretty worn in?

Maggieo · Post by **Maggieo** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:27 pm

Wow, my AVRI isn't sticky in the least bit. Smooth as glass. Fast, too.

Maybe it's an individual body chemistry thing? Some people's sweat breaks down the finish or something?

Post by **sookwinder** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:01 am

no nothing to do with body chemistry .... every player who has played my CS strat and the two AV offsets feels this tackiness just as they start playing ... then after a few minutes (after its warmed up) it become glassy smooth .... it's almost like there wsasn't enough "hardener" used in the nitro (if that is what happens

)