HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

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soul1
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HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by soul1 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:54 pm

I'm getting this really loud and noticeable buzzing from my CV Jaguar (Mustang) bridge at certain times/playing positions. I'm not sure what it is, since I've played other CVs (with the same bridge) and they never had this issue. I feel like I've covered all my bases when it comes to setup and adjustments on the guitar, so I'm not sure what else is left, the guitar plays great, except for this buzzing. This is what I've done so far:

-Setup with 11-49s, adjusted the nut.
-Properly shimmed the neck with stewmac shim, and raised the bridge.
-Wrapped a small amount of tape around the bridge posts.
-Applied blue loctite to both the bridge post screws, along with the intonation screws.

The only thing I can think is that the saddle or the spring is vibrating and buzzing. Not sure how I can fix this? Ideally, I'd prefer not to replace the bridge.

Here is a video clip: https://youtu.be/CV7r3tmYNEE

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timtam
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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by timtam » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:59 pm

Hmmm that's a bad one. Is it only on the G ? Sounds to me like the string could be hitting the front or back edge of the bridge plate (OTOH it appears to clear the intonation screw end). A pic from the side would help. Also to judge if your bridge is possibly too high.

You can rule out the intonation screw and spring by temporarily removing them. But the buzz doesn't sound like it's them IMO. The other thing to do with anything that might be rattling is put your pinky on each part as you strum, to damp it.

I would also remove the bridge post wrapping if you want to use the trem (which works best with a freely rocking bridge). Not that it's likely to be factoring into the buzz issue.
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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mbe
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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by mbe » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:45 am

I had something similar on the B string of my CV Jaguar. When I fitted a bridge cover it went away. Must have added more mass to the bridge and damped the spurious frequency.

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Arc
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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by Arc » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:53 am

Are you 100% positive it is the bridge and not some frets buzz? I ask since it happens only in certain positions. Does it disappear when increasing the action?

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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by soul1 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:28 pm

timtam wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:59 pm
Hmmm that's a bad one. Is it only on the G ? Sounds to me like the string could be hitting the front or back edge of the bridge plate (OTOH it appears to clear the intonation screw end). A pic from the side would help. Also to judge if your bridge is possibly too high.

You can rule out the intonation screw and spring by temporarily removing them. But the buzz doesn't sound like it's them IMO. The other thing to do with anything that might be rattling is put your pinky on each part as you strum, to damp it.

I would also remove the bridge post wrapping if you want to use the trem (which works best with a freely rocking bridge). Not that it's likely to be factoring into the buzz issue.
I've attached some photos below. The string definitely isn't hitting the front or back of the bridge plate, there seems to be enough clearance even when fretting. Same with the intonation screw end, there's a good amount of space between that and the string. It's mostly on the G string, but it sometimes occurs on the D and B strings as well.

If it is indeed the spring, then I wonder if applying some loctite to the screw (where it sits below the spring) would help, or might cause some issues. :derp: Image Image Image
Last edited by soul1 on Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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soul1
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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by soul1 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:30 pm

Arc wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:53 am
Are you 100% positive it is the bridge and not some frets buzz? I ask since it happens only in certain positions. Does it disappear when increasing the action?
Definitely not fret buzz, the clip I posted is when I was playing the G open string (not fretted). Increasing the action doesn't seem to help either.

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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by soul1 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:01 pm

UPDATE: I was able to confirm that it is indeed the spring, or some combination of the spring, saddle, and intonation screw below the saddle. I did this by playing the open G and dampening the area with the spring with the tip of a pen, and the buzzing went away.

So the question is, how do I dampen the sound in this area of the bridge with the spring? I'm wondering if some carefully placed loctite could help?
Image

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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by timtam » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:34 am

The purpose of the spring is to keep the saddle pushed forward in its intonated position, and also thus create enough contact force between the saddle and intonation screw to stop said screw rattling loose. But if you look at your side-on pic, you can see that the string break angle at the back of the bridge is always greater than at the front of the bridge - so string forces also act to push the saddles forward. The Staytrem OTOH doesn't have springs. So it relies on those string forces, as well as holding the intonation screw stable, to keep the saddle in place. It merely has a means to hold the screws stable and stop them from rattling loose - nylon washers on the screws originally, and circlips on the more recent bridges. So the real need for springs is not clear.

So I would first try yours without the spring. As well as seeing if the bridge works OK without it, that would confirm the spring as the source of the buzzing. Tiny nylon washers are available (like Staytrem's) if you want to go further and replace the springs with them (or you could just add them to the end(s) of the spring to stop it buzzing).
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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soul1
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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by soul1 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:08 am

timtam wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:34 am
The purpose of the spring is to keep the saddle pushed forward in its intonated position, and also thus create enough contact force between the saddle and intonation screw to stop said screw rattling loose. But if you look at your side-on pic, you can see that the string break angle at the back of the bridge is always greater than at the front of the bridge - so string forces also act to push the saddles forward. The Staytrem OTOH doesn't have springs. So it relies on those string forces, as well as holding the intonation screw stable, to keep the saddle in place. It merely has a means to hold the screws stable and stop them from rattling loose - nylon washers on the screws originally, and circlips on the more recent bridges. So the real need for springs is not clear.

So I would first try yours without the spring. As well as seeing if the bridge works OK without it, that would confirm the spring as the source of the buzzing. Tiny nylon washers are available (like Staytrem's) if you want to go further and replace the springs with them (or you could just add them to the end(s) of the spring to stop it buzzing).
Thanks for the help, much appreciated. I'll try and disassemble it and see if I can get rid of the springs, and/or add nylon washers. Do you by any chance know the size of those tiny washers? I've looked and can't find the really tiny ones.

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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by timtam » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:37 pm

soul1 wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:08 am
Thanks for the help, much appreciated. I'll try and disassemble it and see if I can get rid of the springs, and/or add nylon washers. Do you by any chance know the size of those tiny washers? I've looked and can't find the really tiny ones.
The intonation screws on a metric bridge are usually M3. But a 3mm washer is not usually designed to actually hold the screw, but be large enough to allow the screw to pass freely. So if the Staytrem intonation screws were around M3, it's likely that the original Staytrem washers were a size or two smaller, like 2.5mm or 2mm internal diameter, so that they do hold onto the screw. You could just order some of those individual sizes from ebay, or a selection. They're not expensive ..... eg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383793888412

Staytrem washers ...
Image
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by soul1 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:48 pm

timtam wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:37 pm
soul1 wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:08 am
Thanks for the help, much appreciated. I'll try and disassemble it and see if I can get rid of the springs, and/or add nylon washers. Do you by any chance know the size of those tiny washers? I've looked and can't find the really tiny ones.
The intonation screws on a metric bridge are usually M3. But a 3mm washer is not usually designed to actually hold the screw, but be large enough to allow the screw to pass freely. So if the Staytrem intonation screws were around M3, it's likely that the original Staytrem washers were a size or two smaller, like 2.5mm or 2mm internal diameter, so that they do hold onto the screw. You could just order some of those individual sizes from ebay, or a selection. They're not expensive ..... eg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383793888412

Staytrem washers ...
Image
Great, thank you. I'll try and find those washers.

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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by andy_tchp » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:28 pm

Or you could slip a short length of heatshrink over the offending spring/s. Use clear and it's barely noticeable (had to do this on a Mastery I owned).
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.

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Re: HELP - CV Mustang-style bridge buzzing

Post by soul1 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:49 pm

Wanted to update this post in case other CV owners were having this problem. I tried the nylon washers but no luck. BUT then I realized it actually isn't the bridge or saddle that is causing the buzzing, it's actually the tremolo arm or assembly! :wacko:

If the arm is installed/inserted, it sometimes vibrates in the collet and causes some weird buzzing. I always play with the arm inserted, so when I remove the arm, the buzzing is gone! :fp:

I really like this guitar, but I wish Fender would use better parts for these. I'll probably have to upgrade the trem assembly at some point as well.

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