Dead string(s) on jaguar

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Bartonfinkerton
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Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by Bartonfinkerton » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:07 am

HI
i just bought a used Fender MIM jaguar classic 60s lacquer. The d and, especially the g string seem quite dead, no sustain at all, the other strings are ok.
i have a standard bridge that came with the guitar, the neck is shimmed quite high (done by the previous owner)
I have read about the various alternative bridges and they seem quite expensive now.
Is there a cheaper solution? I was thinking about the mustang bridge to try first, as its quite cheap.
Any advice gratefully received.
Thanks
Simon

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by druunkonego » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:23 am

Are you sure the problem is the bridge and not the nut? Common issue with going from a wound G to a plain G, the nut slot is now too wide and the string sounds dead. Could be a previously owner had some heavier strings on it and it just needs a new nut.

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by Bartonfinkerton » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:37 am

Ok.yes the last owner had roundwounds. Maybe that is the reason I will investigate.
Cheers for the reply
Simon

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by Dr Tony Balls » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:54 am

You could check if the problem is the nut quite easily by checking the sustain on an open G vs. the sustain of a fretted note on the G string.
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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by Bartonfinkerton » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:02 pm

Hi.
I had The guitar checked at my local tech and he suggested it’s not the nut or fret, but the guitar. I had a friend over with his Chinese fender mahogany Jaguar with p90s and a tune o matic bridge, and his guitar had a similar sustainless 7th fret d string.
Can anyone with a Jaguar check if their d string at 7th fret has less sustain?
Cheers
Simon

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by adamrobertt » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:46 pm

Bartonfinkerton wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:02 pm
Hi.
I had The guitar checked at my local tech and he suggested it’s not the nut or fret, but the guitar. I had a friend over with his Chinese fender mahogany Jaguar with p90s and a tune o matic bridge, and his guitar had a similar sustainless 7th fret d string.
Can anyone with a Jaguar check if their d string at 7th fret has less sustain?
Cheers
Simon
If a note is choking out at a specific fret, that's a fretwork issue. Likely the 8th fret or another fret behind it is high.

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by alexpigment » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:45 pm

I do understand if he just thinks the guitar is not great quality for whatever reason, but surely if he's worked on guitars for any period of time he would know the solution to a dead note on a particular fret. Did he mention anything about a fret leveling or adjusting the truss rod? I guess I just have a hard time believing that he's a tech and that's what he told you; it feels like one of those things has to be incorrect.

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by adamrobertt » Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:35 pm

alexpigment wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:45 pm
I do understand if he just thinks the guitar is not great quality for whatever reason, but surely if he's worked on guitars for any period of time he would know the solution to a dead note on a particular fret. Did he mention anything about a fret leveling or adjusting the truss rod? I guess I just have a hard time believing that he's a tech and that's what he told you; it feels like one of those things has to be incorrect.
Yeah it sounds like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about or someone who just doesn't want to deal with it. "Lol it's just a shitty guitar" is an unacceptable answer from any tech imo.

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by jorri » Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:11 pm

Check for shim "ski jump" sometimes when improperly installed there is a counterproductive curvature over the heel.

Presume its all set up with the action since new strings? It it even across a range of notes or at a particular place on the neck? If there are grooved saddles, they dont necessarily pass over the same on every guitar. Any kind of "sitar" buzzing there absorbing vibrations? Seem like they are consitricted in any way by the two middle saddles due to their similar diameters? If its everywhere then perhaps this is it.

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by timtam » Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:01 pm

Bartonfinkerton wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:02 pm
Hi.
I had The guitar checked at my local tech and he suggested it’s not the nut or fret, but the guitar. I had a friend over with his Chinese fender mahogany Jaguar with p90s and a tune o matic bridge, and his guitar had a similar sustainless 7th fret d string.
Can anyone with a Jaguar check if their d string at 7th fret has less sustain?
Cheers
Simon
A "true" dead note is frequency-specific. That is, the neck has a resonant modal frequency that matches that note frequency. That results in vibration energy flowing from the string to the neck, exciting the neck to the vibrate at that frequency. Thus those vibrations are lost from the string and the note decays more quickly. Structurally it is to do with the dimensions, mass, and stiffness of the (composite) neck; so not likely to be universal in particular guitar models (although possibly more common in some than others).

As it is frequency-specific, the faster note decay will occur similarly wherever the same frequency exists across the neck. Or if you tune down/up, the dead spot often moves down to the fret that now has that frequency.

Pate here shows the phenomenon on the G string of a guitar with one resonant modal frequency just below 400 Hz (vertical 'hills'), matching the note frequency around the 12th fret (open circles), and its harmonics (open squares). Decay time ("T30") is twice as fast at that frequency than for surrounding notes.
Image
Image
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... itar_tones
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ic_guitars

If none of the frequency-following nature applies to your "dead" note, the faster decay at that fret location is more likely due to fret issues. I would expect a good tech to test for a true dead note and show you the evidence on which s/he based their conclusion (although maybe not explain the physics ;) ).
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by ludobag1 » Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:42 am

before lot of speculation ,have you try another string ,gauge ?
it happen sometimes to have a deficient string ,the last time i have one was a E bass that i can't intonate on my new marauder build ,i spend lot of time to mesure ,control all to be sure but in fact it was the string the culprit

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by timtam » Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:11 am

The OP's original concern was a whole string, but as of today it is now just "dead" at a single fret (D string at 7th fret). So less likely to be the string.
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by Bartonfinkerton » Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:53 am

Hi.
Thanks for the replies
I am sure the frets are fine and the nut is ok.
I tightened the tremolo a little. No change. Then a lot, nothing
I read about something called sympathetic resonance or vibration, this seems to be happening.
When I play an A (7th fret) on the 4th string or an A on the 3rd G string it causes the other strings to vibrate and cut the A note shorter.
It’s not terrible, but annoying as single notes of this note cannot be sustained as long.
I heard about adding heavy weights to the headstock.
Is there a less unsightly solution ? Maybe truss rod or neck pocket changes.

The guitar looks great so I can’t touch it myself, I have to take it to my friend who sorts these things out.

Has anyone any experience doing this?
I was thinking of getting an American tremolo (it currently has the buttonless version on it ) from Thomann. But only if it’ll help, I am not made of money.

Cheers for any replies.
All the best
Simon
Last edited by Bartonfinkerton on Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by Bartonfinkerton » Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:54 am

I tried a lighter string too. It has 11s, It didn’t change

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Re: Dead string(s) on jaguar

Post by graceless » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:15 pm

This is an inherent problem with some guitars. A few of my jaguars do this, my jazz bass does this. My musicmaster and strat and tele and everything all have some notes, somewhere, that don't sustain as long as open strings or fretted notes.

The only guitar that I have ever played that I have not noticed any sort of'dead spot' on are my Modulus basses. Graphite necks do away with the issue as the resonant frequency of graphite is so vastly different than that of wood.

Even brand new guitars straight from the factory...I've just learned to live with it (or I've been playing imperfectly setup guitars for the last 20 years...).

Pretty common in basses, so I didn't think it was that strange on guitar. Anyone who says they don't have dead spots is using some alternative material (acrylic, graphite, metal) or hasn't found it yet.

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