Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

For help with setups and other technical issues.
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seenoevil II
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Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by seenoevil II » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:40 am

Sorry if this a redundant thread, I tried searching.

Once again, my project is completely halted by my inability to solder. I try and I try, but I'm left with the impression that it's just about impossible to do. I'm assuming this isn't a skill that some people aren't gifted in and therefore can't master. I'm assuming that anyone can learn how to do it. I'm assuming that many of you have learned how to do it. How?

What kind of tools do you need. I have a cheap iron and some non- lead solder.

Do need a solder station to do basic guitar wiring?

Do you use solder wicks or suckered?

What wire do you for guitars? Where do you get that or any of this?

Do you need helping hands to get anything done at all?

Are there exercises I can do to practice?


I know I could Google all this, but I figured, why not just ask those who have gone before and know what guitar/ music specific wiring requires.


It's all super frustration as I have learned fret work, nut carving, and other more basic set-up type skills. But in this area, I feel useless.
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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by adamrobertt » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:21 pm

Soldering is very easy. I'd have to watch you try to point out what you're doing wrong, but it really is not complicated or difficult. Making a nut from scratch is WAY more complicated.

The main thing you need is a decent soldering iron. You want one that can get hot. The shitty 40w irons that you can buy for $20 probably aren't really good enough - they may be the source of a lot of n00b frustration that people have. You want a hot iron (I run mine at 720 degrees Fahrenheit) because it minimizes the amount of time that the iron has to be in contact with the components, and melts the solder more thoroughly.

The other main thing that newbies don't do is to heat the component, not the solder. Your goal is to get the component hot, and then touch the solder to the component. It should melt instantly and create a strong bond.

It's also important to keep your tip tinned (a little bit of solder melted onto it) and to clean it frequently while using it. If you let too much corrosion to build up on the tip, it will stop transferring heat efficiently, and you'll end up with cold solder joints, or in extreme cases, not be able to melt solder at all.

As for solder wick - I've never found it particularly useful, although some people like it. I prefer to use a solder sucker.

Guitar wire is generally 20 to 24 gauge (22 is prob most common) single conductor, stranded wire. Cloth covered or vinyl doesn't matter, up to your personal preference.

I've never personally needed helping hands, but I can see their utility for some projects. I'd say most guitar wiring does not require their use, though.

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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by DrQuasar » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:02 pm

I started learning with a cheap radio shack soldering iron. Like anything, practice is how you get good at it. I rewired a lot of guitars (or rather, the same guitar over and over) switching out different parts and switches and lights and things. I would also get small electronic toys or anything electronic that made sound at thrift shops and then try to circuit bend them, which usually just meant they'd end up broken and not doing anything, but a couple times I ended up with stuff that worked. Nothing that cool or usable, but I could get lights to turn off and on or sound off and on that kind of thing. Turns out its kind of hard to get toys to do that cool stutter/noise/glitch stuff on demand or at least, I never could figure it out.

One project that was really helpful and built my confidence was making a simple A/B pedal. Mine is something like this but runs off a battery (which is just there for the light) and has an on/off switch for the battery because otherwise one or the other led is always on. Get more than one color wire.

Anyway, a bulb sucker is way better than desoldering wicks. I love my little bulb sucker. The hard part for me was figuring out how to hold everything so you can attach them well without burning yourself. I don't know how to explain that because it's different for every connection. I usually do a couple practice runs in my head or even physically so I know the motions before doing it for real. Sort of how you would when using a table saw.

Also, some irons come with really a small, narrow tip and those won't work as well for guitar stuff because guitar components/circuits are huge compared to circuit board type things. Can't get them hot enough. So if your iron has one of those tips that looks like a sharpened pencil, that might be why stuff isn't working very well. Getting a bigger tip would probably help. I use one that looks like a flat head screwdriver.

Now I have the house-brand soldering station from Circuit Specialists and I love it. Works way better. Don't get the shielded guitar wire with the shielding on the outside. It looks cool but it's a PITA to work with IMHO.

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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by Scout » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:28 pm

Beginners don't know to keep the tip tinned and clean, Get some old fashioned lead solder too, at least to start.
Then practice.

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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by adamrobertt » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:46 pm

Lead solder isn't necessary. I've never had an issue with silver-tin stuff. It's fine.

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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by andy_tchp » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:09 pm

DrQuasar wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:02 pm
Also, some irons come with really a small, narrow tip and those won't work as well for guitar stuff because guitar components/circuits are huge compared to circuit board type things. Can't get them hot enough. So if your iron has one of those tips that looks like a sharpened pencil, that might be why stuff isn't working very well. Getting a bigger tip would probably help. I use one that looks like a flat head screwdriver.
Sufficient wattage is more important than the shape of the tip IME. I never use anything except the thin pencil style as it's easier to work in tight spaces. No problems soldering to pot/switch casings, the iron just needs enough power to keep heat in the tip/joint. 40W absolute minimum (this is what I use), don't waste time with the cheaper 15W/25W jobs.


To the OP, watch some videos and practice practice practice, even just wires to switch terminals until you can identify that you're getting nice clean/shiny joints.

Then practice some more.

And I'd second the recommendation for starting with lead solder.
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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by mackerelmint » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:22 pm

Yes, go with lead solder. The 60/40 stuff that's more tin heavy is better than the stuff that's more lead than tin. Standard rosin core solder is perfectly fine for pretty much everything you'd want to do. Having a proper tip cleaner is a real help, too. The dampable sponge thingy that comes with dinky soldering iron stands is better than nothing, but the brass brillo pad thingy is great.

Helping hands definitely help, and having heatshrink tube for wiring is really nice. Practice makes perfect, but actually committing to it enough to buy some halfway decent equipment pays big dividends upfront. You can even get pretty decent irons for cheap, one of these will totally carry you through.

I use a sucker and braid as well, though cheap braid is almost no better than no braid... I splashed out for a cheap but proper desoldering iron that heats and sucks and it's awesome.
This is an excellent rectangle

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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by DrQuasar » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:35 pm

andy_tchp wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:09 pm
DrQuasar wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:02 pm
Also, some irons come with really a small, narrow tip and those won't work as well for guitar stuff because guitar components/circuits are huge compared to circuit board type things. Can't get them hot enough. So if your iron has one of those tips that looks like a sharpened pencil, that might be why stuff isn't working very well. Getting a bigger tip would probably help. I use one that looks like a flat head screwdriver.
Sufficient wattage is more important than the shape of the tip IME. I never use anything except the thin pencil style as it's easier to work in tight spaces. No problems soldering to pot/switch casings, the iron just needs enough power to keep heat in the tip/joint. 40W absolute minimum (this is what I use), don't waste time with the cheaper 15W/25W jobs.
That makes sense. As long as its hot enough the shape probably doesn't matter. I have a 60 watt iron and sometimes it can burn up the thin tips if they get too hot. They start to deteriorate. But if it works, it works.

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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by timtam » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:43 pm

Lots of useful tips above ... some contradictory ;) ... but try different ways and see what works best for you.

You don't actually say exactly what's going wrong when you try to solder. If you can describe that we can probably diagnose what your main problems are.

If I were to pick several important things to highlight, it would be good heat and sufficient hands.

Good heat comes from a hot iron (~340 degs Celcius), with a good-sized tip (medium chisel shape for most guitar work, in good condition), tinning your wire (if it doesn't take solder easily with a hot iron, it's not meant to be soldered), and applying the heat to the work in the right way. If you don't have those things right, you're wasting your time.

Sufficient hands means for example if you are trying to solder a ground wire to a pot back*, then by definition you need at least 3 "hands" to hold everything and stabilize the work to get a good joint. So it's often all the little extra tools that make any soldering task easy ... helping hands tool, mini-clamps, mini vices, tweezers, hemostat ... plus dentist-like tools, wire strippers, bright light, magnification if your eyes need it, etc. Sure you can get by without some of them once you're experienced (although I still use them by choice), but when you're starting out you need more help.

I have two irons. A simple $20 Weller that I bought in my teens. It still works OK decades later. It's my backup. I then used expensive Weller temperature-controlled stations for years. When the last one eventually died, I decided to take a chance on the cheap Chinese ones that had begun to proliferate online. It's 60 watts, has simple temp control in the handle, feels like the expensive Weller in the hand, came with 5 different tips, and cost about $10. It's been fine. Had I not tried it, I would have been firmly in the "buy a decent soldering station" camp.

Those inexpensive irons now come in kits with all the extra little gizmos you need, for not much more money. I obviously can't guarantee that they're all as good as mine, although priced similarly. They are voltage-specific, so make sure you get the right one for the mains voltage (110 or 220v) where you are. eg
https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Iron-K ... B07S61WT16

You need appropriate diameter solder for the job ... not too thin or thick. I usually use ~1mm. Also get helping hands ...
Image

*I never solder to the back of pots. But that's another story.
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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by seenoevil II » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:25 pm

Lots and lots of good info here. I've been researching different things.

Things I've learned I'm doing wrong:

My iron is only 20 watts.

I haven't seen this spelled out yet, but I'm getting the sense that you shouldn't remove oxidation and old solder with sand paper down to the copper core of the iron tip? Is that correct?

So, I at least gotta step up my iron to 40-60 watts. They're two votes here for cheap all in one irons with built in controls. I miiight still get spendy and spring for a Weller station. We'll see.


As for wire, a (frankly suspiciously serendipitous) reddit post has informed me that most write off eBay or Amazon will be "fake" or at least not to their stated specs. Where would one get good wire for this kind of thing (besides StewMarkup)?

I have the feeling that this is something that will get 1000 times easier with a better set up.

Thanks everyone. Too much to respond individually. I'm taking it all in though.
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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by andy_tchp » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:37 pm

seenoevil II wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:25 pm
I haven't seen this spelled out yet, but I'm getting the sense that you shouldn't remove oxidation and old solder with sand paper down to the copper core of the iron tip? Is that correct?
Definitely not. Sandpaper will remove the plating of the tip, effectively killing it.

The only thing necessary to clean the tip is a damp sponge or the brass brillo pad things that M mentioned that cost a few dollars. Get the iron nice and hot and it just wipes clean.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by seenoevil II » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:10 pm

andy_tchp wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:37 pm
seenoevil II wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:25 pm
I haven't seen this spelled out yet, but I'm getting the sense that you shouldn't remove oxidation and old solder with sand paper down to the copper core of the iron tip? Is that correct?
Definitely not. Sandpaper will remove the plating of the tip, effectively killing it.

The only thing necessary to clean the tip is a damp sponge or the brass brillo pad things that M mentioned that cost a few dollars. Get the iron nice and hot and it just wipes clean.
Oh, man. That's funny. That's such a, "well there's your problem" moment.

I hope I can find this increasingly funny after I get decent at soldering.
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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by JSett » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:36 pm

Good equipment will make ALL the difference. No need to go crazy with spending either. These are all UK-based links but, depending where you are, I'm sure you can find equivalents easy enough.

Something like this would be a major upgrade (and I used a version of for many years):

https://uk.farnell.com/tenma/21-21310-u ... price=true

The brillo pad thing is cheap as hell:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Soldering-Clea ... B00FZPGDLA

And good quality 60/40 fluxed solder:

https://uk.farnell.com/multicore-loctit ... price=true


I've been wiring up guitars and repairing amps with this stuff for a long time and, once you've got the technique down, give you strong, clean and good connections

*EDIT: This video is really good and she has very calming way about her. Her channel is really nice and chilled...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2gmLp ... ioElectric
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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by Futuron » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:13 am

There's a free soldering tutorial series through Seymour Duncan that you can sign up to.


If you can put up with hearing "sahdur" 100 times a minute (or mute the sound and read the captions)

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Re: Soldering / Wiring: How Did You Get Good At It

Post by marqueemoon » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:17 am

I’ve made cables, a kit boost pedal a custom footswitch, and soldered up pickups to a prewired harness, so not nearly as experienced as some folks here.

I agree with highish heat and keeping the tip clean and tinned. Also don’t cheap out on raw materials.

I’m lucky in that my work has a nice Weller station, drill press, bench vise, etc… , so I usually just take my projects there to work on at lunch.

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