Stereo wiring conundrum

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mgeek
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Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:48 pm

I’m working on a 12 string scratch build at the moment, and could use a bit of help with a wiring issue, if anyone who knows their stuff would be able to chip in

I’ve got four pickups, each going to a dpdt wired as an a/b, with the centre position being off, those feed into two identical Vol/Tone/output circuits

All works as intended with one amp, but if I plug a second in, the shared ground kicks in and gives me the same output to each amp.

Is there a fix for this or do I need to go back to the drawing board?

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Futuron
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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by Futuron » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:12 am

This is an interesting guitar.

Problem could be due to the way the pots are wired? I recommend drawing a wiring diagram of what you have, then we can trace signal path instead of speculate it.

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by Nudger » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:36 am

I did something similar, Check my "marauder stereo" thread.

Originally I used a mustang switch for the two separate circuits that converted them to mono through a stereo jack socket when using a single amp.
But.. When I used the mono setting I found the vol dropped?

After bugging loads of people who know lots more than me I was told that when the circuits combine it halves impedance (I wont pretend to know what this means)
Top and bottom of it... you lose frequencies/volume.

When I had it switched to stereo with a stereo Y splitter cable "two mono leads,two amps" I got two circuits working independently with no vol drop.
True stereo.

What im trying to say is, if you can keep the circuits separate (two separate circuits each hitting a mono jack) Two mono leads to two amps.
Or.. Both circuits going to a stereo jack socket with a stereo Y splitter hitting two mono leads two amps.
You will achieve true stereo.

I also tried a ric-o sound jack system which is used on their basses (has separate mono and a stereo jack sockets).. Again true stereo through the stereo jack socket with Y splitter.....
But again, Loss of frequencies/volume when switching to the mono jack "mono lead,one amp"

Hope this helps.. It took me months through trial and error to come to this conclusion.

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:42 am

Thanks guys, I’ll find somewhere to host some pics and report back in a bit!

Nudger- loving the look of your builds! Might be interested in some of those rocker conversions if you’re making any to sell, it’d be the perfect look for this

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:05 am

Image


Here’s what I used first of all, just linked these two circuits up- four of the a/b circuit running in parallel into two of the vol/tone circuits, I can draw it up more clearly if that helps. I’ve since modified it on the advice of a dude on Facebook - run a jumper down the left and right tabs of the dpdt switches and lost the crossover wires in the middle, but still getting the same result.

One thing I did wonder is - I’ve currently bunched the earth wires of the pickups together a little way back from the pots, then taken a single wire from them to the first vol pot shell. And also, a weird thing is happening where if I touch the earth, which is going to the same pot, I get MORE hum, but it dips like you’d expect when I touch the metal shell of the lead Jack
Last edited by mgeek on Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:15 am

Futuron wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:12 am
This is an interesting guitar.

Problem could be due to the way the pots are wired? I recommend drawing a wiring diagram of what you have, then we can trace signal path instead of speculate it.
Excuse messy wiring I’ll make it look nice once it’s functioning properly!

Image

Image

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:27 pm

Aha! Might have sorted this… some numpty (me) had wired both outputs the wrong way round. Will be able to check with two amps tomorrow but touching wires together it seems to be doing what I want

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by Nudger » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:02 am

mgeek wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:27 pm
Aha! Might have sorted this… some numpty (me) had wired both outputs the wrong way round. Will be able to check with two amps tomorrow but touching wires together it seems to be doing what I want
Nice one
Youl need to contact Deed_Poll regarding Rocker conversions.

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by MC5tooge » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:03 am

I had a stereo setup in my Stratmaster for a while. Was never happy with the results so took it out again.
Considered setting it back up again when I put the parts into a Marauder body - but decided to use the switch for something else instead.
Only time I could get it to sound good in mono was with a stereo cable and a splitter - like others have said. And after I got a Plethora X5 which only has a mono effects loop (so everything that comes before it gets mixed into mono anyway) there didn't seem much point.
I'd argue it made more sense to do your mono/stereo switching with a footswitch or rocker "mix" pedal TBH.

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:46 am

Nudger wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:02 am
mgeek wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:27 pm
Aha! Might have sorted this… some numpty (me) had wired both outputs the wrong way round. Will be able to check with two amps tomorrow but touching wires together it seems to be doing what I want
Nice one
Youl need to contact Deed_Poll regarding Rocker conversions.
Great, thank you, it’s exactly the look I need for this

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:52 am

MC5tooge wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:03 am
I had a stereo setup in my Stratmaster for a while. Was never happy with the results so took it out again.
Considered setting it back up again when I put the parts into a Marauder body - but decided to use the switch for something else instead.
Only time I could get it to sound good in mono was with a stereo cable and a splitter - like others have said. And after I got a Plethora X5 which only has a mono effects loop (so everything that comes before it gets mixed into mono anyway) there didn't seem much point.
I'd argue it made more sense to do your mono/stereo switching with a footswitch or rocker "mix" pedal TBH.
I’ll have to take a look at the stereo marauder projects, has anyone got a direct link?

I’m not seeing any issues with mono at the moment, though I get a bit of a drop when combining pickups which I’m assuming is an out of phase thing

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by Nudger » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:39 am

mgeek wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:52 am
MC5tooge wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:03 am
I had a stereo setup in my Stratmaster for a while. Was never happy with the results so took it out again.
Considered setting it back up again when I put the parts into a Marauder body - but decided to use the switch for something else instead.
Only time I could get it to sound good in mono was with a stereo cable and a splitter - like others have said. And after I got a Plethora X5 which only has a mono effects loop (so everything that comes before it gets mixed into mono anyway) there didn't seem much point.
I'd argue it made more sense to do your mono/stereo switching with a footswitch or rocker "mix" pedal TBH.
I’ll have to take a look at the stereo marauder projects, has anyone got a direct link?

I’m not seeing any issues with mono at the moment, though I get a bit of a drop when combining pickups which I’m assuming is an out of phase thing
All four pickups on mine were same polarity, Wound in the same direction.. Would it have been an issue regarding phasing if they wernt? I couldnt say.

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:44 pm

Nudger wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:39 am
mgeek wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:52 am
MC5tooge wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:03 am
I had a stereo setup in my Stratmaster for a while. Was never happy with the results so took it out again.
Considered setting it back up again when I put the parts into a Marauder body - but decided to use the switch for something else instead.
Only time I could get it to sound good in mono was with a stereo cable and a splitter - like others have said. And after I got a Plethora X5 which only has a mono effects loop (so everything that comes before it gets mixed into mono anyway) there didn't seem much point.
I'd argue it made more sense to do your mono/stereo switching with a footswitch or rocker "mix" pedal TBH.
I’ll have to take a look at the stereo marauder projects, has anyone got a direct link?

I’m not seeing any issues with mono at the moment, though I get a bit of a drop when combining pickups which I’m assuming is an out of phase thing
All four pickups on mine were same polarity, Wound in the same direction.. Would it have been an issue regarding phasing if they wernt? I couldnt say.
I’m really a cave man with this stuff, no real idea, but could also be that the pickups are totally different types, the full length ones are kinda murky single coils about 9k and the half length ones are 3.5k but actually louder. I’ll see how it sounds when I’ve fiddled with the heights

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by Nudger » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:18 am

I’m really a cave man with this stuff, no real idea..
[/quote]

Same here :D
I think... if youre using different pickups which possibly have different polarity/wind direction on the same circuit, You may be making a already busy project harder work.
Im not savy enough to check polarity etc so took safe option.. All same.
Cool project, Im hooked.

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Re: Stereo wiring conundrum

Post by mgeek » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:00 am

Nudger wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:18 am
Same here :D
I think... if youre using different pickups which possibly have different polarity/wind direction on the same circuit, You may be making a already busy project harder work.
Im not savy enough to check polarity etc so took safe option.. All same.
Cool project, Im hooked.
Oh it's done, circuit wise, definitely works well enough for my purposes, I'm being *very* picky mentioning the slight volume drop thing

I'll post pics up when the whole thing is finished, need to take it to bits and put a proper finish on it now

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