Wide Range Pickup Questions

[andy_tchp]

I have some small orange spragues, but even being small I'm not sure they'd fit. Any idea what Fender uses?

Decidedly non-fancy small ceramic disc capacitors.

Fender used ceramic disc caps up through the 1970s but it's rare for Fender to use them today.

Apart from most offsets, yeah.

[j mascis]

It’s unlikely you’ll have “ice pick” tones (man i hate that expression!) with WRHB pickups.

A 0.047 cap winds off tons of treble, and i wouldn’t use it with humbuckers unless you want a really bassy sound.

0.022 should wind of some trebles but still leave a nice mid-range honkiness. It’s a good starting point, i find.

Don’t overthink this....caps are easily swapped if you don’t like your first choice

Have fun with it!

Thanks, man.

I have another guitar i built with gold foil humbuckers in it and a .033 capacitor. I switched it to a .022 today just to experiment, and I hear that midrange honk you're talking about, mostly in the upper 3 treble strings. I'm surprised of the noticeable difference. Not sure I like it, but I'm going to give it a few days to adjust. I might go back to the .033 (it's a bit dark)...it's almost like I need something in between those.

Also trying to factor in band setting vs solo. Solo the .033, darker sound is better, but in a band the added treble is probably better. Rolling off the tone knob seems to be all or nothing -- might need a better taper pot?

[j mascis]

0.047uf is typical, 0.033uF is a little brighter, and 0.022uF is brighter than that

Good idea on the pots. The two I have are 500k spot on and 503k. I'd have to order some more and sort through them.

.047 is typical for a humbucker?
I thought that was for single coils...

[Caedess]

Hello,
I want to build a jazzmaster AVii 66 with standard (metal cases) wide range cunife pickups and also keep the rythm circuit (with no pots or caps change at the beginning) but a guy from Fender answered me this :

"Apologies for my lack of clarity. The standard CuNiFe Wide Range Humbuckers wouldn't work with the rhythm circuit not because of the pickup covers, but because of the wiring.
 
On the Jazzmaster pickups, the hot and live wires are separate to allow you to wire the pickups to both the rhythm and lead circuits, with a seperate ground wire.
 
On the humbucker however, there are four wires which are wrapped together and this wire would need to be split to make it go to the rhythm and lead circuits.
 
While this isn't technically impossible, it's highly impractical because it was never designed to be used that way - which is why the Wide Range Jazzmaster pickups were introduced.
 
Humbuckers are also inherently significantly darker than single coils and Jazzmaster pickups, so they're not recommended for use with a rhythm circuit as they would sound exceptionally dark and arguably not very good.
 
Also, the pickup cavity in the AVII 66 Jazzmaster is not designed to fit Humbuckers, so the body of the guitar itself may need routing, not just the pickguard. The metal covers from the Humbucker wouldn't fit the Wide Range Jazzmaster pickup either, as the pickups are not the same shape.
 
Fender Japan did recently have a run of the Traditional 60's Jazzmaster with Wide Range CuNiFe Humbucking pickups, but even this did not have a rhythm circuit - for the reasons listed above.
 
To achieve what you're looking for, the simplest solution which would allow you to use CuNiFe Humbuckers with a rhythm circuit, without having to make permanent modifications to your guitar and thus void the warranty, would be the CuNiFe Wide Range Jazzmaster pickups - they are a straight drop-in replacement and designed for exactly this purpose. If you wish to have metal pickup covers, you may be able to find some on the aftermarket or have some custom-made, however these pickups themselves are the best place to start."

Do you think he is right or can I wired them (metal cases) anyway ?

Thanks

 

[timtam]

I have no idea what that Fender guy is on about, saying that a standard Fender CuNiFe WRHB can't be wired into a guitar with a rhythm circuit. The WRHB would take the place of the regular JM neck pickup in the rhythm circuit, wired in exactly the same way.
"On the Jazzmaster pickups, the hot and live wires are separate to allow you to wire the pickups to both the rhythm and lead circuits, with a seperate ground wire.
On the humbucker however, there are four wires which are wrapped together and this wire would need to be split to make it go to the rhythm and lead circuits."

"Hot and live wires are separate" ? Huh ?

The only "4 wires" in the Fender CuNiFe WRHB are the internal coil wires (2 per bobbin). They are already joined in series internally and so exit the cover as a single-conductor (hot), braided-shield wire (both in the original 1970s CuNiFe WRHB and more recent re-released CuNiFe WRHBs). You would wire the neck WRHB's hot to the rhythm switch just as a neck JM pickup is wired to it. There is no need to "split" anything. It sounds like he doesn't understand the JM circuit (schematic below).

The MIJ CuNiFe WRHB JM indeed has no rhythm circuit, but that is nothing to do with any of the above 'non-reasons'. It was just a design choice, possibly based on the view that a HB may not work well tonally in the already-dark rhythm circuit.

The main issue with adding WRHBs to any guitar is the big rout required - bigger than both a regular HB and a regular JM SC pickup.

[Caedess]

Thanks Timtam for your answer !!
That is good news !
But I don't understand why we need routing the wood.
Assuming a regular wire range is 79.5mm x 44.4mm x 16.3mm
I think they can fit in an American vintage cavities that are larger than jm pickups. My only concern is for screws brackets beside covers... and maybe height of pickups but with a stewmac shim for the neck it seems that will go..

Here is some photoshop test with a decoboom wide range pickguard.



Thank you !

[timtam]

I could be wrong about the required WRHB routing being bigger than a regular JM routing, but I've made the mistake before of thinking that a big routing like a Fender 'swimming pool' routing would fit a WRHB - it doesn't (it's too narrow). So I would not be surprised if the width of the legs of the WRHB and possibly its depth exceeds the size of a standard JM pickup routing . You could check JM routing dimensions against that of a Tele Deluxe for example.
https://www.electricherald.com/fender-t ... templates/

[Caedess]

Thank you !

Yes Tele Deluxe is definetly wider but it seems to have extra space only on the right...it is not align with the neck !
So I think i'm gonna order just one Cunife wide range and test it on the Jazzmaster. If I just need to cut a bit of legs of the WRHB that will be great and order the second one otherwise I will send it back...

I keep you in touch !

Thanks again

[madlovepickups]

You will very likely need to route the body to fit four mount hole wide range pickups.