Jaguar - String pitch is slghtly too high after using the vibrato

[jgpouton]

Hi,

I have this problem when I lightly use the vibrato and check the pitch of the strings just after. They come back slightly too high (1 to 3 graduations above on the tuner). How come?

I have 11-gauge strings and graphite in the nut.

Thank you for your help.

Cheers

[Embenny]

Likely binding at the nut. You have graphite but did you slot it for 11's first?

[timtam]

Is this with the vintage-style rocking bridge or a fixed bridge ? Does that the trem have a lock ? ... and if so, is the spring adjusted to the middle/neutral/easy-in, easy-out lock position ? ..
https://offset.guitars/the-goodies/sett ... lo-system/

[jgpouton]

It is with a Mustang rocking bridge (Squier Classic Vibe Jaguar) and there's no lock (https://shop.fender.com/en-FR/squier-el ... l?rl=en_US).

[ChrisDesign]

Unless your nut is TUSQU, lubricate your nut: Planet Waves LubriKit Friction Remover https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0036FFDSK/ ... gFbYJPE2BV

If you want up to guage 11, or higher, strings then you may need a larger nut slot. Get a tech to do this for you.

Decreasing the tension at the vibrato will reduce the pull on the string, which may be pulling to a higher pitch. The lock button is a perfect guide to correct vibrato tension: just enough so the lock can slide in and out. If you don’t have a lock button - my Jazzmaster standard doesn’t - then ensure the collet is vertical; 90 degrees to the body. A metal ruler will help you find the right angle.

[shoule79]

This is why I went to a fixed bridge (Mastery). The bridge would t always go back to true after heavy bar use.

[fisonic]

If you retune at that point, what happens? If all is good, then you might need to revisit your tuning process.
Suggestion being, warm up the strings & give the trem a wiggle before tuning.

[jgpouton]

Sorry for the delay. I tried many things and those suggested here but to no avail. It's a Mustang bridge and my Squier CV Jaguar trem has no lock button.

The fact that all the strings are detuned the same way (instead of only one or two) means that it's a bridge problem don't you think? Is it because it's a Squier and would a Fender Jaguar be more stable because better built (I don't think so but I cannot check)?

There's another thing I've understood - If I only push the vibrato arm down then the strings remain in tune but if I pull the arm they come back too high.

The Mastery got my attention because it's a fixed bridge and I would not have the problem of my bridge not returning to its neutral position.

Thank you to all contributors!

Cheers

[timtam]

Everything should work OK with 11s, assuming all is set up correctly - good string-saddle friction, well stretched strings, and no binding points at the nut or string trees. Can you post a side pic of your bridge ? You need sufficient bridge height to get a good string break angle over the saddles, to maximize downforce and therefore string-saddle friction (I hope you didn't lube the saddles). With sufficient string-saddle friction, the trem should move the strings and bridge together, forward and back to exactly where the bridge started. Unless perhaps the trem spring compression (set with the trem spring screw) is insufficient to provide sufficient restoring force to return the strings/bridge to where they started.

[jgpouton]

Unless perhaps the trem spring compression (set with the trem spring screw) is insufficient to provide sufficient restoring force to return the strings/bridge to where they started.

Thank you timtam for your interest. I tried various bridge heights and neck shimming, among other things already. The only thing I have not been looking into is the trem spring compression. There's a screw in the middle for that. I suppose I should screw that screw to increase the force of the spring right?

[Embenny]

Unless perhaps the trem spring compression (set with the trem spring screw) is insufficient to provide sufficient restoring force to return the strings/bridge to where they started.

Thank you timtam for your interest. I tried various bridge heights and neck shimming, among other things already. The only thing I have not been looking into is the trem spring compression. There's a screw in the middle for that. I suppose I should screw that screw to increase the force of the spring right?

Did you slot the nut for 11s and test for binding? Graphite doesn't solve the issue if it isn't slotted wide enough, and it wouldn't have been cut for 11s from the factory.

Tune up an open string. Bend that string as hard as you can, then check - it may be flat. Now press on that string behind the nut as hard as you can. Check again. Did it sharpen? Either (or typically both) mean you're still binding at the nut. Repeat on all 6 strings.

[jgpouton]

I agree mbene085 but all my strings are sharp at the same time when using the vibrato and that cannot be the nut. Also I checked the nut and there's no binding.

The problem is basically that my bridge does not return to its neutral position.

[timtam]

I would first set the neck pocket shim to get the bridge near to as high as it will go (without the strings fouling the front/back edges of the bridge plate), to maximize the break angle/downforce. Then aim to get the trem spring adjustment to neutral. The principles of what you are trying to achieve with trem spring setup are shown at the link below.

The problem with that traditional trem spring setup procedure is that it relies on using the trem lock button's 'easy-in/easy-out' position as a reference point/guide, adjusted by the spring compression screw, to get the trem plate underneath to the neutral position where it is parallel to the top plate. And of course your CV trem doesn't have the lock button. Fender's trem setup instructions started including much the same process using the lock button in the early 1970's AFAIK, so it's not clear why they thought ditching the lock button on cheaper Fender models and Squiers was a good idea. Some people get by without the lock button (and the Mastery doesn't have one), but when people run into setup issues, it provides a greater level of certainty that you have things in the right 'neutral' ballpark.

Without a lock button to guide you, you could take the trem off and correlate a horizontal/parallel/neutral plate angle underneath to a trem arm angle above (or height above the top plate), so that you have a way to get the plate to neutral when the whole thing is back under string tension. As mentioned earlier, the angle of the trem arm collet is also an approximate indication of the plate angle. Having said all that, there is also some variation in trem spring strength used over the years in various models, so the neutral position may be associated with a stiffer or looser trem feel in some cases, which could influence tuning stability. But once you have it at approximate neutral - and know how to get it back there - you can start playing with tightening the trem screw CW for a stiffer trem (stronger recoil), to see if it improves your tuning stability. Turning the screw clockwise compresses the spring, making the trem stiffer, and the arm tilts upwards (as the bottom plate comes closer to the top plate). Turned as far as it will go, the trem is so stiff that it is effectively blocked from moving in either direction. Turning the screw counter-clockwise does the opposite (if the screw is turned too far, the spring nut will fall off the end of the screw, requiring taking the trem off to restore it).

There is definitely something to be said for taking the trem off to get a good feel for how the screw-spring adjustment works - lock button or no lock button - and its relationship to the trem arm angle/feel. If you're careful, that can be done without taking the strings off - just loosen them almost all the way to totally slack, and tape them at the nut and end of the neck. Then unscrew the outer 6 trem plate screws.

https://offset.guitars/the-goodies/sett ... lo-system/

[Embenny]

If you're careful, that can be done without taking the strings off - just loosen them almost all the way to totally slack, and tape them at the nut and end of the neck

Great post and advice, but I just wanted to say that I use a capo instead of tape for that kind of job and it works great. Makes stringing up a Bigsby super easy (bend string, place on peg, pull string straight, capo around the 12th fret, then get it onto the tuner without worrying about it working itself off the peg).