Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

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bigugly
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Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by bigugly » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:18 pm

I'm having problems with my Jaguar's tailpiece (the Fender Classic Series replacement tailpiece). It's the standard problem of the high E hitting the domed screw.

This is my first offset, so some quick internet research reveled that a quick easy solution for the problem is to "Flip" the screws. That is, remove the tailpiece from the guitar, remove the domed screws, and re-screw them from the inside of the plate (resulting in the screw ends being visible from the top of the plate). The strange thing is, when I flipped the screws, they don't hold to the top plate. It's pretty evident that the holes in the top plate are just holes,they are not threaded or sized to actually hold the screws.

Has anybody else ran into this problem? Did a quick search and couldn't find anything...

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timtam
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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by timtam » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:48 pm

The usual idea is to leave the middle screw right way up to hold the plate ...
https://mmguitarbar.wordpress.com/2013/ ... ll-follow/

Flat-headed screws is another option, counter-sunk if possible.

If the strings touch the bolt heads it can be a sign of an insufficient string break angle. So if your bridge currently has range to go higher (keeping the same action), a tapered neck pocket shim might be a better fix (which will have other benefits if you have the rocking bridge).
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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bigugly
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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by bigugly » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:46 pm

Hah! Of course! Duh. :fp:

Will try the correct method on the next string change.

Of course the real solution is to shim the neck. I'm putting it off because I don't want to mess with the action right now, but it will have to happen eventually.

Thanks!

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by Horsefeather » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:51 am

I went the countersinking and flat head screw route with success. I did find that there is a limit to how far you can countersink, though. Ideally, the countersink would extend beyond the top plate down into the fulcrum piece itself to allow the screw to sit truly flush but this isn't possible (or maybe I should say practical) due to the hardening of the fulcrum piece.

Another stupid design left unfixed by Fender for over half a century!

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by wproffitt » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:23 am

I just had my high e unwind at the ball end the other day because of this. This is the first time it’s happened in the 11 years I’ve owned my JM. What are the specs on those flathead screws, out of curiosity? This may keep me from doing something crazy, like ordering a Swope Descendant or Mastery tailpiece. :)

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by Horsefeather » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:04 pm

The screws are 8-32, 3/8" long, Stainless steel with allen head drive.

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by timtam » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:13 pm

Horsefeather wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:04 pm
The screws are 8-32, 3/8" long, Stainless steel with allen head drive.
Unless it's a metric trem (eg Classic Player, MIJ, most lock-less trems). Not sure exactly what those plate screws are, but metric screws are easy to measure, as they're almost always 1mm increments in diameter, so it's M4 (4mm), or M5 (5mm), etc. etc
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by ChrisDesign » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:33 pm

bigugly wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:46 pm
Of course the real solution is to shim the neck. I'm putting it off because I don't want to mess with the action right now, but it will have to happen eventually.
Don’t be afraid. If you’re in the U.K., P.M. me and I’ll send you a stew mac shim.
"I own a '66 Jaguar. That's the guitar I polish, and baby - I refuse to let anyone touch it when I jump into the crowd." - Kurt Cobain

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by wproffitt » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:39 am

Horsefeather wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:04 pm
The screws are 8-32, 3/8" long, Stainless steel with allen head drive.
Thanks so much for that information. Mine is, indeed, a Classic Player, so I may have to pick a few different sets of metric flathead screws with allen drive and see what works. It’ll be cheaper than that Swope trem, which looks oh-so-attractive! ;D

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by timtam » Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:06 pm

If you have digital calipers they are usually dual metric/imperial. So the easiest way to get the size of a metric screw is just to measure its diameter with those. And it will almost always be a full 1mm increment, so it's hard to go wrong (even a metric ruler will probably be OK). Also metric screws tend to stick to the same thread size for a given size screw. That's why you rarely see thread size specified with metric screws - because it almost never varies from the standard for that size screw. All in all much simpler than imperial screws. If you can't counter-sink the holes, you may be better off with non-countersunk flat head screws. But without counter-sinking, the improvement over the stock round head screws with any flat head will be more marginal.
eg
Flat head, counter sunk ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-9-Grade-Ni- ... 3442648122
Flat head, non-counter sunk ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-50-M2-M6-SS ... 3550101060
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by jorri » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:40 am

So if you are saying a screw that is flipped is doing nothing, and only held by the middle screw, why not just remove them if it's fine that way??

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by bodhi » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:31 pm

I guess there's a theoretical risk of the plate going out of alignment? At least now that I quickly check the edge that the screws hold down can wiggle a bit side to side, but this is without any strings attached as I have my stuff disassembled for the time being. Not sure if it's a real practical problem...

Are there different tapers on the head for applicable 8-32 flathead screws? I ordered some, but eyeballing it it seemed that for them to be drilled out so the screws would be flush would be on the edge of not leaving any grooves left for the screw to hold on to...
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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by Francer » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:16 am

Those flat head ones look good, I managed to find counter sunk ones a while ago which are fine, they're still flatter than the originals and so don't catch the string. If you look closely they do sit slightly proud of the hole but I can live with that, I don't want to risk screwing up my trem by attempting to counter sink the holes.

I never liked the idea of just flipping the outside screws, it turns the outside pair into locating pins and the middle screw is doing all the fastening work, that just doesn't seem right to me.

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by jorri » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:01 am

bodhi wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:31 pm
I guess there's a theoretical risk of the plate going out of alignment? At least now that I quickly check the edge that the screws hold down can wiggle a bit side to side, but this is without any strings attached as I have my stuff disassembled for the time being. Not sure if it's a real practical problem...
My bass VI has only one problematic screw so I am tempted to just leave the other two on, which may be more sufficient than just the one. (and ignore assymetry, it's only a squier)

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Re: Can't Flip Screws On Fender Classic Series Jaguar Tailpiece

Post by Horsefeather » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:29 pm

bodhi wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:31 pm
Are there different tapers on the head for applicable 8-32 flathead screws? I ordered some, but eyeballing it it seemed that for them to be drilled out so the screws would be flush would be on the edge of not leaving any grooves left for the screw to hold on to...
Don't worry about the threads in the fulcrum piece--you aren't going to be countersinking that part. It's hardened steel. Only the plate will get countersunk, which is why the screws do sit a little proud.

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